D&D General consideration on sapient folk having two distinct base cultures?

[NotAYakk]

yeah, could you do that I want to know if there are any great divides in dwarves so I can know if they can all not be just copies of the same guy?

also, most of dnd is set at a tech level where industry is still hard and difficult so exactly when the Han himself did well.

Also, the Mongols had plenty of tech.

They had well bred domesticated horses, the stirrup, and composite bows. All of which are technology.

They just don't involve smelting ore.

In a fantasy world, trained and bred fantasy creatures can be a thing. As would be fantasy plants and monster body parts being used to construct weapons.

Magic, like spells or other abilities, can be learned without having access to iron. A civilization where 1 in 3 people know a spell on the scale of "lighting bolt" would beat a pre-modern "industrial" civilization hands down.

Like, imagine a civilization where the average citizen is a T1 druid or ranger. Put them up against a civilization that can mass produce chainmail, polearms and crossbows, and the average soldier was a "guard" from the monster manual. I think the druid/rangers would win, no "less than" involved.

...

The "Settled" (Road and Wall) people are the typical D&D "commoners" and use rituals to build protection around their settlements. The walls and roads are reinforced with magic, their crop yield is boosted by magical fertilizer. A relatively small percentage of the population does farming thanks to the magical boost, the population is highly urban and full of crafters, etc.

The "Nomad" (Tree and Sky) people are almost all "low level adventurers". The population density is much lower. Each individual makes personal deals with magical patrons (primal spirits or other less savory) to have the strength to survive in the wilderness.

"Road and Wall" have difficulty expanding where they cannot do their rituals, which require ley lines (for roads) and ley nexus (for walled cities). This leaves most of the world for the "Tree and Sky" peoples. At the same time, their higher density and their magical wards make overrunning a "Road and Wall" civilization difficult.

Conflict between then erupts along the roads, where the protective magics for the "Road and Wall" people are weaker. Short cuts that bypass built up roads requires dealing with the "Tree and Sky" people's. Expanding the road network is another source of conflict, as is building settlements on new nexus.

Specific Nexus and Ley lines weakening over time is a way for the "Road and Wall" cities to fall into decay and ruin, as is just being overrun by the wilderness.

Ocean travel becomes interesting. You can't build roads on the ocean. So the Road and Wall civilization has to use Tree and Sky like behavior for their ocean going ships -- you make deals with the spirits of the sea.

I guess the alternative would be you somehow ward your ships. I could imagine such wards would decay fast, away from a nexus; so you'd go to a port, refresh your wards, then head out. And they'd decay over the journey. Better get to a new settlement before they are all gone!

 

[Yaarel]

Sure,
But the iron ore has to be dug out, the charcoal has to be created in large quantities and once you get into more advanced metallurgy you are starting to need other chemicals during the forging process, etc.

Iron ore can be found in marshes and pulled up from the mud. Or even if mined, can be close to the surface, and so on.

 

[Yaarel]

Re nomads, there are hunter-gatherers, and dont forget that "hunting" includes fishing and sea culture.

Hunter-gatherers tend to be psionic. In this context, primal is a psionic discipline focusing on the elements and plants. Prescience is important, and all of the other disciplines tend to be present too.

The technological ones following traderoutes tend to be herder-gardeners, with domesticated bovids (cows, sheep, goats, etcetera) and other livestock as part of their caravan. They may even farm temporarily while bovids find good pasture.

It is probably fair to say, all nomads organize according to extended families. Each family has elders governing it. Warriors always are members of a particular family, and elders decide whether or not to cooperate with other families. A tribe is an alliance of families. A tribal leader may be elected by the various families, to ensure each family trusts the leader with their own family members.

 

[Faolyn]

Sure,
But the iron ore has to be dug out, the charcoal has to be created in large quantities and once you get into more advanced metallurgy you are starting to need other chemicals during the forging process, etc.

Magic. Transmute rock to mud and shape stone are high-level, sure, but invaluable. And you can use magical fire instead of requiring coal (of any sort). Plus, in a magical world, ironwood trees might actually be made of metal, people may have learned a trick to hunting gorgons or other metallic monsters without turning to stone in the process and have learned how to extract the metal from their bodies, or there might be spaces connected to the Plane of Earth which puts metal right there and ready to be picked up with minimal mining needed, if any.

Or barring metal, well, there's still plenty of fantasy materials out there. The bones of giants, dragons, or titans could be just as useful (and depending on the world, there could be graveyards of such things, not necessarily requiring people to go forth and kill the monsters). Yes, these are finite resources, but that just means that items made of them are likely to be old and therefore have acquired some legendary magical powers on their own.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Magic. Transmute rock to mud and shape stone are high-level, sure, but invaluable. And you can use magical fire instead of requiring coal (of any sort). Plus, in a magical world, ironwood trees might actually be made of metal, people may have learned a trick to hunting gorgons or other metallic monsters without turning to stone in the process and have learned how to extract the metal from their bodies, or there might be spaces connected to the Plane of Earth which puts metal right there and ready to be picked up with minimal mining needed, if any.

Or barring metal, well, there's still plenty of fantasy materials out there. The bones of giants, dragons, or titans could be just as useful (and depending on the world, there could be graveyards of such things, not necessarily requiring people to go forth and kill the monsters). Yes, these are finite resources, but that just means that items made of them are likely to be old and therefore have acquired some legendary magical powers on their own.

or dragons just can move reality and pick this one to dump their bodies in.
monster hunter world had such a place it was both horrible and my favourite area.

 

[Yaarel]

Sure,
But the iron ore has to be dug out, the charcoal has to be created in large quantities and once you get into more advanced metallurgy you are starting to need other chemicals during the forging process, etc.

Iron ore smelting can be small amounts too. For example, Viking Period had metallurgical skills widespread, with many families doing their own metalwork, mainly with basic tools, like bellow, tongs, and hammering on a stone. There is a story of a shipwreck leaving a crew stranded. They scavanged for local iron ore, smelted it in a makeshift kiln out of mud and grass, made nails out of iron to juryrig the damaged wood back together, and sailed back home. If one knows what one is doing, one can do it with minimal resources at hand.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Re nomads, there are hunter-gatherers, and dont forget that "hunting" includes fishing and sea culture.

Hunter-gatherers tend to be psionic. In this context, primal is a psionic discipline focusing on the elements and plants. Prescience is important, and all of the other disciplines tend to be present too.

The technological ones following traderoutes tend to be herder-gardeners, with domesticated bovids (cows, sheep, goats, etcetera) and other livestock as part of their caravan. They may even farm temporarily while bovids find good pasture.

It is probably fair to say, all nomads organize according to extended families. Each family has elders governing it. Warriors always are members of a particular family, and elders decide whether or not to cooperate with other families. A tribe is an alliance of families. A tribal leader may be elected by the various families, to ensure each family trusts the leader with their own family members.

I still say having psionic and primal magic contrasting would be better, like how divine and arcane works but ideally better.

 

[Yaarel]

I still say having psionic and primal magic contrasting would be better, like how divine and arcane works but ideally better.

Shamanic animistic cultures tend to be about the power and influence of a mind, where objects of nature also have mind. It is by definition psionic.

That said, manipulating the elements of earth, water, air, and fire, and plants, in other words, skies and lands, tends to be its own discipline.

Where the other psionic disciplines tend to focus on humans and animals, primal tends to focus on the minds of objects. As a result, these mountains and rivers become members of the tribal community. These primal minds do the same psionic disciplines that humans do. But these mountains and rivers can become members of the human family, and viceversa. A mountain that has a strong mind can project outofbody and manifest ghostlike in a human form, sometimes a giant.

 

[Ixal]

Iron ore smelting can be small amounts too. For example, Viking Period had metallurgical skills widespread, with many families doing their own metalwork, mainly with basic tools, like bellow, tongs, and hammering on a stone. There is a story of a shipwreck leaving a crew stranded. They scavanged for local iron ore, smelted it in a makeshift kiln out of mud and grass, made nails out of iron to juryrig the damaged wood back together, and sailed back home. If one knows what one is doing, one can do it with minimal resources at hand.

If you only need small amounts or only basic iron tools this works. But making high quality steel which you need for weapons and armor requires a more elaborate setup.

Also, its not only knowledge and access to tools and materials, but also time. Making mail for example is incredibly time consuming and a entire suite might take a man-year or more. But its hard to do when you are nomadic and moving every few weeks/months.

 

[Yaarel]

If you only need small amounts or only basic iron tools this works. But making high quality steel which you need for weapons and armor requires a more elaborate setup.

The Viking Era included the best steel in Europe. These artisanal methods can be extremely effective, but require knowledge and hands-on experience to do well.