Considering engineering a TPK

[delericho]

I'm not sure if I'm asking for advice, or just ranting to blow of steam...

A couple of months ago, I started a new campaign with a group I'd run games for before. The party duly created characters for the campaign I thought I was going to run, and we were off.

Except that most of the players proceeded to assign the Chaotic Neutral alignment to their characters, completely ignoring my "You must be Good" rule. Still, we sorted that, and started play. Two sessions later, that campaign went out in a TPK. (I underestimated one of the challenges, over-estimated the tactical brilliance of my players, and they crucially created a party with only one competent combatant amongst them.)

Never mind. We decided instead to play through the Savage Tide Adventure Path.

This time, only one player assigned his character the Chaotic Neutral alignment. I consider this a triumph. However, the total of the Charisma scores from my five PCs was about 25. The highest was the Cleric... with a 10. This is probably not ideal for the Savage Tide, which is the most role-play intensive of the Adventure Paths.

The party have also displayed a near-total lack of competence, generally bumbling their way through the first adventure, proceeding through the plot only by virtue of my carefully nudging the game along whenever it looked like they were getting frustrated. (As evidence of their incompetence - last night the group almost got wiped out by a CR3 Illusionist with no offensive combat ability at all.)

It's obvious that they're not in the mood for a 'serious' game. It's also obvious that their hearts really lie in the more free-wheeling nature of an Evil, or at least Neutral, campaign. I have no problem with this in theory... but not with the Savage Tide, which I had wanted to do justice to.

So, I'm at a point where I'm seriously considering just throwing an overwhelming encounter at them, wiping out the party, and starting a far less serious game.

Any advice? Thoughts? Anyone want to point and laugh?

 

[thedungeondelver]

Yeah, it definitely sounds like the players (and their characters) are in over their heads. If they won't take the admonishment for "good aligned characters only", nothing you do is going to really stick.

If a 3rd level (I'm guessing) illusionist nearly took them down, a few theives with a magic-user on standby ready to drop one or two fireball spells in their midst as they're strolling to the next town should bring this sorry scene to an end.

 

[Merkuri]

Don't engineer a TPK. Talk to your players. Tell them that you feel like they're not ready for the game you had planned and that you'd like to start a new one. Table this campaign, and do an evil and/or silly one for them. If they like it, go with it. If they become tired of it after a while, pull out the adventure path again and either start new (which you might be able to do with a little understanding on the player's parts if you're not too far into it) or resume from where you were. If they're okay with a little handwaving, you can allow them to re-tweak their characters into something more fitted for the campaign, provided they're ready to play those characters, of course.

It's never good to force something on your players they don't feel like playing, and I feel like a TPK isn't a good solution to it. They might think of it as punishment. Rather than killing them all for playing your game wrong, give them a game that fits what they want to play.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

*points* AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


Can't resist an invitation like that!


Anyway, speaking to them about it is always a good idea. If it turns out they want to do something else, do something else. I guess killing them off is not necessary - that time can be better spent kicking booty in the new campaign, or creating characters for the new campaign, or playing Munchkin (the card game).

 

[diaglo]

they sound like they want to play a different kind of game than the one you are running.

with cha so low and a tendency towards CN. they are banking on more pure combat.

kill things and take their stuff.

but they want interesting stuff. with crazy powers or unique backgrounds.

less world saving.

 

[smootrk]

I don't condone an engineered TPK, but I would agree with the above advice. Start a new mini-campaign, allowing the characters to be as Evil, Vicious, Self-Centered, Vile... whatever, to get that out of their system. Just make sure your players know it is for a short time, urging them to 'bring on the badness', cause this is all temporary.

Then after a short period (which is good because more of the Savage Tide installments will come out for you to preview before using), you can state that you want to do a new campaign, focusing on Swashbuckling Wit, Charismatic exchanges, Goodness, Loyalty... all that jazz. Emphasizing Charisma over Brawn, or at least well balanced as a party.

You might even engineer a Evil PC set of diversions to do occasionally, around the same Isle of Dread (but never actually crossing the paths of the other set of characters). This allows them to be the bad pirates whenever the allure of good seems a bit drab.

 

[BroccoliRage]

Don't kill off your players' characters on purpose, such Deus Ex MAchina is almost always transparent and immediately recognizable. Just tell your players that you aren't interested in running the type of game they are going for. Lots of players seem to believe there is only one style of D&D play, and that style is "never write a good alignment on your sheet, never bite at the DM's hooks, never go for the obvious adventure, do you best to kill townsfolk." This style of play usually draws blank stares from me, as it's stale (go to any random group, chances are the game is being played exactly this way) and boring. I want to play an adventure game, not live out frustrated bullying fantasies.

OF course, when players start behaving this way, I usually bring the adventure back to them, by reminding them why vigilantes came into being.

Well, I rambled a bit there, but my initial advice stands: No Deus Ex MAchina, talk to your players. If your players are mature people, they should understand. IF they aren't, you're playing d20, so you can EASILY find more players! In fact, maybe you should step down and let one of them get behind the screen.

 

[Rystil Arden]

(go to any random group, chances are the game is being played exactly this way)

While the advice in your post is sound, I strongly disagree with this assertion. I have, in fact, never seen the aforementioned behaviour in person, and I only read about it online infrequently in horror stories by GMs.

 

[takasi]

I think Savage Tide is actually well designed for pretty much any alignment or play style.

Is the group unhappy? Or are you the only one who is unhappy?

If they aren't playing very well then you can always make it easier too. As far as "doing justice" to the AP, well the worst thing you can do is not play it at all.

 

[molonel]

I think you need to chill out, and lighten up. Let the campaign as present be a little more light-hearted. TPKs shouldn't happen that often in a campaign, and talking to them about the campaign is a much preferable option to an engineered wipe. You might even end up starting over, anyway, but just have them make new characters. That way, everyone is on board, instead of saying, "Okay, so I killed your SECOND party! Want to try something else?"