Constatine (Reeves) and Prophecy (Walken)

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

and just an aside on Angel Legend

iirc Michael lead the Angelic Host
Gabriel was the Herald (dude with the Trumpet)
Raphael was the messenger
Lucifer was formerly Gods lamp bearer but rebelled

is this correct or is it just more urban myth?

Sources disagree. Gabriel is implicated in several of God's little genocides (esp. Sodom and Gemorrah). He's a VERY different cat in the Old Testament than in the New Testament, where he becomes a herald and such. Raphael doesn't appear in the canonical scriptures at all, and is variously represented as a messenger or (more commonly, I think) as a healer.

Lucifer is a bit of a mess. As I recall, he's also not named as such in anything canonical, and the correspondence between the Adversary (Satan) and "Lucifer the Archangel" is common, but not 100% across all the sects and groups that had him.

Personally, I always like the version where Lucifer was the brightest and most powerful angel and was exiled for trying to raise his throne higher than God's. I also like the Sufi version, which says that Lucifer loved God more than anyone else did, and was actually thrown out for refusing to bow down to Man. His justification was that God was the only being worthy of such reverence. (Or variously, he stuck to God's original law that Angels should bow only to God, eventhough God Himself had changed his mind)

Of course, "Lightbringer" really comes from the fact that he's associated with the planet Venus (the brightest "star"), from back when they were more concerned with converting the heathens than maintaining the integrity of the Scriptures or the belief system.

 

[Frostmarrow]

I don't think it had anything to do with her being a women, they just found a female actor with an androgenous look. Angels after all are often described as sexless and not apparently male or female.

Spoiler

I liked Gabriel and thought making the angel the villain is not an interesting plot twist. I thought it was silly Gabriel was so short-sighted. I mean how could he have believed that God would be behind him on that one? Sure, challenging man to make him more worthy of God's love is one thing but to release the Anti-christ... well that's a whole different animal, isn't it?

I kept looking for Gabriel's adams apple. I couldn't spot it. I think Tilda Swinton was really good as Gabriel but he felt more like a woman than a man, to me. I seem to recall Constantine referring to him as 'he', though. Tilda had wraps tightly wraped around her bussom, but her torso was still all female. -Better than giving her armor, I suppose. At least her face was perfect for the part.

All in all I liked the film and didn't even object to Keanu Reeves. He kind of reminded me of David Gahan from Depeche Mode. The ending was bad, though, as is always the case since they feel the need to explain the stuff man isn't supposed to get anyway. With this money we could have gotten Lovecraft by David Lynch instead.

*** and a thousand people goes "YOU WISH". ***

 

[Klaus]

Funny enough, Gabriel is usually portrayed as a female in the In Nomine RPG.

 

[Merlion]

There are overall similarities in the subject matter, but the plots arent identical or even really that similiar. In Prophecy Gabriel was leading an all out War in Heaven 2 because he was jealous of mankind. In Constantine, Gabriel was trying to make humankind more worthy of God's love, not as much begrudging it. Also, Constantine was (unsurprsingly) really about Constantine and his life and struggles, whereas Prophecy was primarily about the second war in heaven.


Also as has been mentioned the actual story in Constantine was based on the comic story which predates Prophecy.


One odd note tho...was the Gabriel in Constantine actually the semi-biblical Gabriel? Constantine's Gabriel was supposed to be a "halfbreed" (although I hate the use of that term in that movie...halfbreed implies, obviously, that they were part angel or demon and part human, but most of them seemed to be simply angels or demons in human forms, on earth) so this makes it hard to say if they are indeed the same character.

I wonder if that whole "halfbreed" crud is in the comics? I doubt it since its the same cosmology as the Sandman, where the concept doesnt exist..

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Funny enough, Gabriel is usually portrayed as a female in the In Nomine RPG.

Where Laurence and other angels are very confused as to why she revealed Islam to Mohammed, since they're big boosters of Christianity.

 

[Klaus]

S/he revealed Islam to Mohammed at the behest of Eli. It was the Crusades' bloodshed that drove Gabriel over the edge, since it was a holy war between two religions s/he helped found.

Very cool stuff, that In Nomine game.

 

[Particle_Man]

I wonder if that whole "halfbreed" crud is in the comics? I doubt it since its the same cosmology as the Sandman, where the concept doesnt exist..

Gabriel is not a "halfbreed" in the comics. I think Books of Magic mentions one half-angel/half-devil, and Constantine has one baby born to an angel and a devil (which we never find out what happens to after the angels get it). Non-canon DC comic Preacher has more details of one angel/demon crossbreed that changes the universe.

In short, they are very, very rare in the DC comic universe.

 

[Merlion]

Yea I knew about Genesis in Preacher.

It just seems like the "halfbreeds" in the movie either 1) are in fact simply demons and angels in early forms and/or 2) are supposedly some sort of angel or demon/human crossbreeds that probably dont actually result from interbreeding which is weird...


I just wondered if there was anything like that in the comics.