D&D 3E/3.5 Consultations re 3.5 --> 4E Druid/Wizard Conversion?

sskoog

First Post
Subject says it all; original char was a Half-Elven Dru-5/Wiz-5, not really optimized in any way, shape or form, but still quite enjoyable by sheer merit of his versatility. Concept is similar to a "natural philosopher," perhaps more focused on the arcane/student-of-physical-sciences Wizard side (i.e., not a tree-hugger), with a touch of healing, herbalism and shapechanging from Druidic sources.

Literary influences include Moorcock, Terry Brooks' (first and second) Shannara series, and perhaps a little bit of Stephen Donaldson's Thomas Covenant Earthblood/Lore-of-the-Land material. This guy is grim, something of a wanderer, and given to years-long retreats from society, but remains affixed to some greater destiny, possibly even the restoration of magic to his otherwise-dwindling world.

The transition to 4E is proving difficult. I can model the char in any number of different ways [Half-Elf Wiz multiclassing into Druid, or vice versa, Half-Elf Wiz-Druid Hybrid, creative re-imaginings as full-blooded Elf, or Eladrin, or topically similar class combinations such as Druid-Sorceror, Cleric-Wizard, Invoker-Shaman, etc.]; while our style of play isn't particularly minmax or rules-heavy, many of these combinations *do* seem dilute, directionless or prone to what I like to call Ineffectually-Nickel-and-Dime-Opponent-Until-It-Closes-Then-Get-Pounded-Into-Hamburger Syndrome. =)

I am confident this situation can be rectified. I would appreciate whatever guidance you might offer. Am intentionally keeping his 3.5 mechanics off the table so as to inspire greater creativity and outside-the-box thinking; suffice to say that this char is of the Blast-Debuff-and-Summon-then-Wildshape-for-Melee-or-Escape strategy, rather than the Always-Wildshape-using-Natural-Spell or Tank-with-Gear-and-Beastform styles of play. (I freely admit this may be part of my 4E conversion problem.)

Thanks very much, in advance, for your contributions, suggestions, and/or specific build commentary. Have at it!
 

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did this REALLY quick but it works for your character as far as I can tell. Druid wizard is a hard combination because neither their attack stats or secondary stats line up very well. It's not very minmaxed but you won't be doing terribly. I chose more elemental powers as you are nature based. Abilities are probably not maximized but I couldnt think of a better set up.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Druwizard, level 10
Half-Elf, Druid|Wizard
Hybrid Druid: Hybrid Druid Will
Hybrid Talent: Arcane Implement Mastery
Arcane Implement Mastery: Tome of Readiness
Background: Forest Warden

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 10, Dex 10, Int 18, Wis 19, Cha 13.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 8, Dex 10, Int 16, Wis 17, Cha 11.


AC: 19 Fort: 15 Reflex: 19 Will: 21
HP: 57 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 14

TRAINED SKILLS
Insight +16, Nature +15, Arcana +14

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +5, Bluff +6, Diplomacy +8, Dungeoneering +9, Endurance +5, Heal +9, History +9, Intimidate +6, Perception +10, Religion +9, Stealth +5, Streetwise +6, Thievery +5, Athletics +5

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Enlarge Spell
Level 4: Focused Expertise (Quarterstaff)
Level 6: Melee Training (Wisdom)
Level 8: Armor Proficiency (Leather)
Level 10: Ritual Caster

POWERS
Dilettante: Thundering Armor
Hybrid Druid at-will 1: Chill Wind
Hybrid Wizard at-will 1: Thunderwave
Tome of Readiness: Icy Terrain
Hybrid encounter 1: Burning Hands
Hybrid daily 1: Phantom Chasm
Hybrid utility 2: Obscuring Mist
Hybrid encounter 3: Call Lightning
Hybrid daily 5: Wall of Thorns
Hybrid utility 6: Wall of Fog
Hybrid encounter 7: Winter's Wrath
Hybrid daily 9: Mordenkainen's Sword
Hybrid utility 10: Blur

====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
 

My guess is that this would work best as a pure druid. Druids are controllers and can get some blasterish powers. But in the end, it very much depends on what kind of wizard and what kind of druid you were.


If you used druidism to heal/buff and wizardry to buff, maybe a Shaman/Druid or Bard/Druid or Arcanist/Druid.

If you used shapeshift to fight and wizardry to increase your fighting power, perhaps warden or warden/swordmage?

If you were a versatile druid that used both shapeshift and heal/buff and a wizard that blasted away, perhaps druid/sorcerer?


Its not likely that any of these combinations will fit you perfectly, but I use them to illustrate the fact that the 3.5 druid are now three classes (druid, warden, and shaman) while the 3.5 wizard can translate to several 4E classes as well (wizard, sorcerer, swordmage, arcanist, maybe even bard). 3.5 spellcasters were very versatile; in 4E, you often have to pick one aspect of a 3.5 character and stick to that. What did you actually use all those spells for?
 

If you're looking to retain a multi-classed character concept while trying to be at least fairly strong as a character, I myself would recommend going with a Hybrid Druid/Invoker of Ioun or Corelleon. Yes, the Invoker is not an arcane class, however you can at least retain the flavor of it by worshipping (or more specifically invoking) one of the deities whose domain includes magical study.

This helps you out build-wise by having two classes that use Wisdom as your primary stat, and you also maintain a firm Controller role. I myself would probably go with Ioun, because that seems closest to your "natural philosopher" concept.
 

What sort of natural philosopher? If he's pre-Enlightenment, I'm going to suggest a warden with Ritual Caster and a pile of rituals, instead of focusing on any arcane multiclassing. The prerequisite is easy to hit with backgrounds, or, if they're not being used, forget what I said earlier and add a multiclass (or simple skill training). If he's more of the 18th century or after bent (and if you build him as Robert Hooke, Half-Elven Adventurer, you're an incomparable badass), then artificer with a druid multiclass, 16 int and 16 wis at level one and bump both every chance you get. Grab staff-based Focused Expertise, as well.
 

My suggestion: Elf Druid (with lots of Rituals); pick mostly powers that aren't Beastform, so you look more Wizard-y in play, but do pick some Beastform powers for flexibility.

Second suggestion: Elf Hybrid Druid | Invoker. You'll have even more "Wizard-y" area effects, at the cost of focus.

Cheers, -- N
 

It's hard to translate a 3e character into 4e, not just because the systems are different, but because 3e was very flexible at chargen. Classes were almost like level-by-level building blocks, and you didn't have to have a specific /very/ high stat to use a class's abilities with some effect. Combining classes in 4e is usually of minimal value, it adds a bit of flavor, and that's about it. It can work if the two classes share a critical stat.

I'd recomend choosing one or the other. A druid with a good INT and trained in Arcana, who collects Arcane as well as Nature rituals; or a Wizard with good WIS (orb wizard, for instance) trained in Nature & Religion, who collects Nature as well as Arcane rituals.
 

I'd recomend choosing one or the other. A druid with a good INT and trained in Arcana, who collects Arcane as well as Nature rituals; or a Wizard with good WIS (orb wizard, for instance) trained in Nature & Religion, who collects Nature as well as Arcane rituals.

I second this. I'd say for your race pick Eladrin if you choose wizard and Elf if you choose Druid.
 

So your question seems to be how do I make a cool roleplay character, in a roleplay heavy group, that also kicks some butt when it comes down to mechanics.



Keys to success:
1. Attitude: you got in spades and makes the roleplay heavy group work
1. Mechanic is seperate from flavor
2. the explanation for how a power works can be different
a. I call out to gaia to smite the defiler by sicking wolves on em
b. I squirt make bitches go wild pheromone on bad guy thus sicking wolves on em.
c. I strive for high flavor simple mechanic

2. Rituals as mentioned above are key for giving you all the Story driving magic you could want. You can do anything with a ritual.
a. arcana, nature and religion give access to different types of rituals
b. you can be a "non-caster" and do rituals with a feat. its fun
c. you don't even need to be good at skill to use a lot of great rituals
d. Can spawn quests for ingredients or formula...good stuff
3. as long as you have ritual feat, and access to 2 skills possibly thru MC feat
4. Half-Elf dilletante power is really cool particularly with
a. combat virtuoso: use cha for to hit on MC powers
b. versatile master turns dilletante power into at-will
c. interesting candidates:
i. twin-strike from ranger
ii. Howling Strike from barbarian, still need str for damage of this power

5. Mounts are a great deal. feat is not needed to ride effectively in combat
dire wolf: cost 1k gp, if you have mounted combat you get combat advantage as long as one of your allies threaten's your target, reliable + to hit is king in 4E
hippogrif: 4k gp fly the friendly skies, works great for charging or ranged, much cheaper and better than magic fly
magic summoned warhorse: feat gives you +5 damage melee damage
Mount Gear: cheap, keeps em mostly impervious in combat, does not slow game down as it is just your actions.

example builds:
1. Half-elf bard- rituals all the skills you need, good buffs and debuffs
either build for charging using barbarian ability
or go Greatbow wielding, twin striking, Euphonic Bow paragon
This is built a bard of valor but move pts from con ->int and be Cunning instead, up to you


I admit he is a bit of a liberal interpretation, but you got your magic, you got your nature friendly, buff, debuffs, control, decent dmg, range help with staying alive, mount helps with staying at range, decent heals
I think flavor wise definitely can be construed to fit.


[sblock]
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Xamot, level 12
Half-Elf, Bard, Euphonic Bow
Bardic Virtue: Virtue of Valor
Background: Born Under a Bad Sign

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 9, Con 19, Dex 15, Int 11, Wis 11, Cha 22.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 14, Dex 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 17.


AC: 27 Fort: 23 Reflex: 22 Will: 26
HP: 89 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 22

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +11, Religion +11, Streetwise +17, Diplomacy +19, Bluff +17, Nature +11

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +8, Dungeoneering +7, Endurance +10, Heal +7, History +7, Insight +9, Intimidate +13, Perception +7, Stealth +8, Thievery +8, Athletics +5

FEATS
Bard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Combat Virtuoso
Level 2: Weapon Proficiency (Greatbow)
Level 4: Focused Expertise (Greatbow)
Level 6: Weapon Focus (Bow)
Level 8: Distant Advantage
Level 10: Warrior of the Wild
Level 11: Versatile Master
Level 12: Prime Strike

POWERS
Bard at-will 1: Cutting Words
Bard at-will 1: Jinx Shot
Dilettante: Twin Strike
Bard encounter 1: Shout of Triumph
Bard daily 1: Echoes of the Guardian
Bard utility 2: Concerted Effort
Bard encounter 3: Song of the New Dawn
Bard daily 5: Strictures of Fortune
Bard utility 6: Song of Conquest
Bard encounter 7: Insightful Shot
Bard daily 9: Forceful Conduit
Bard utility 10: Mantle of Unity

ITEMS
Ritual Book, Amulet of Protection +3, Chainmail, Adventurer's Kit, Longsword, Light Shield, Implement, Wand, Meliorating Braidmail Armor +3, Impenetrable Barding (heroic tier), Mirrored Caparison (heroic tier), Saddle of Strength (heroic tier), Bridle of Rapid Action (heroic tier), Hippogriff, Homing Greatbow +3
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======[/sblock]
 
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Again at least somewhat liberal interpretation is required to not screw yourself with MAD.

Here is an eladrin build I had sitting around.
Again Ritual Caster + arcana, nature and religion gives you all the story magic you need.

Then what do you do in combat? which is why we are here=)


This is a variation of the FeyCharger idea. There are numerous discussion threads on it. Some of which use bogus math others that are good. But its good either way, just not broken when you don't break rules on stacking buffs

This guy's schtick is getting many attacks around with Magic Missle.

move action: whatever you want
std action: charge as part of charge can use racial encounter to teleport 5 squares
on use of feystep: you get a basic melee attack->in this case magic missile
at end of charge:->magic missile, if it hits you do not expend feystep

immediate reaction: either Aegis of Assault/Lotus Master Riposte fires off and you get another MM


If you fire off a daily power first: Wizard's Fury
once a round you can Magic Missile as a minor action.


So up to 4 attacks per round melee or range 20

Also when you Fey Step, Ghostblade gives you combat advantage on one guy for a round

references: Arcane Feycharger (345dpr all day) - Wizards Community


[sblock]
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Tomax, level 12
Eladrin, Wizard|Swordmage, Ghost Blade
Swordmage Aegis (Hybrid): Aegis of Assault
Background: Born Under a Bad Sign

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 15, Con 11, Dex 14, Int 23, Wis 14, Cha 9.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 10, Dex 11, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 8.


AC: 25 Fort: 20 Reflex: 24 Will: 24
HP: 90 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 22

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +17, History +19, Arcana +19, Nature +13, Athletics +13

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +8, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +8, Endurance +6, Heal +8, Insight +8, Intimidate +5, Perception +8, Stealth +8, Streetwise +5, Thievery +8

FEATS
Level 1: Eladrin Swordmage Advance
Level 2: Reaper's Touch
Level 4: White Lotus Riposte
Level 6: Ritual Caster
Level 8: Battle Awareness
Level 10: Powerful Charge
Level 11: White Lotus Master Riposte
Level 12: Fey Charge

POWERS
Hybrid Swordmage at-will 1: Greenflame Blade
Hybrid Wizard at-will 1: Magic Missile
Hybrid encounter 1: Burning Hands
Hybrid daily 1: Wizard's Fury
Hybrid utility 2: Shield
Hybrid encounter 3: Dimensional Vortex
Hybrid daily 5: Dimensional Bond
Hybrid utility 6: Armathor's Step
Hybrid encounter 7: Twist of Space
Hybrid daily 9: Lightning Strider
Hybrid utility 10: Dimensional Dodge

ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit, Implement, Wand, Staff of Missile Mastery +3, Salve of Power (heroic tier), Cloak of Distortion +2, Stoneskin Githweave Armor +3, Horned Helm (heroic tier), Dynamic Longsword +2, Boots of Adept Charging (heroic tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======[/sblock]
 
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