Consume, Engage, Cherish

[Mercutio01]

Like a lot of the opinions I'm noticing here, I really would like to see the basic core book focusing primarily on consumption. And I mean that in terms of both function and form. It needs to be durable, easy to navigate, and concise. It is the book of rules for playing the game, and those rules need to be legible, comprehensive, understandable, and easy to find.

However--pick up a dictionary or a thesaurus. Those are books that are slavishly consumable with no engagement. That's not what I want in a core book. Engagement can not be overlooked. I don't want to read a simple rule book. I'm not going to learn how to actually play chess just by reading the rule book that comes with the board. That is both boring and not presented in such a way that I'll even try to read it. So, art, examples of play, and some fiction bits sprinkled around can fill in all the engagement.

I am least interested in cherish. Not to say that I will not cherish such a book, but it's not a focus. I'm most likely not going to have the room or ability to display these books in a fashion that approaches art. It would be kind of cool to have a piece of art that crosses the covers of the three* core books, with distinctive sections of the whole painting that are easily cropped to covers, but that's about the only way I'd actually be able to place such books in any configuration other than spine out on a shelf. That said, I mentioned durability in my paragraph about consumption, and that's also applicable here. A durable book will last longer, which gives it a greater chance to stick around long enough to become cherished.

*just a base assumption of PHB, DMG, MM

 

[pauljathome]

You know, I picked up the 4e PHB and looked at it and found a book that was highly readable, laid out in a way that was function, and yet has a really nice clean modern look that still says "adventure!" to me. I picked up a copy of the PF core rulebook and ran smack into a giant wall of text written in small font on a background that made it hard to read. It is a nice looking book, but I can't READ IT, and frankly the way the rules are presented there is just really off-putting. Referencing it in play would be a big chore, no thanks.
.

I'm almost the exact opposite. I far prefer the Pathfinder book to the 4th Ed book. Both from the perspective of reading it the first time AND from the perspective of looking something up in play.

Perhaps it is just familiarity since the Pathfinder fairly closely follows the 3.5 books and I was already very familiar with them. But it feels to be something more fundamental than that.

Yet more evidence (as if more was needed ) that us gamers are a contrary bunch . What one person loves another will hate.

 

[El Mahdi]

I chose Consume also.

First and foremost, I want the Info, the Material. Art and attractive presentation are less important to me than that, though effective presentation does have importance.

Art Wise, I just want the art to support visually, what the rules describe, in a realistic, un-aggrandized manner. I want the Art of an Elf, to match the description of an Elf. Not go all crazy anime and fantastically extravagent on it. I want the Art that shows a Bull Rush, to match the description of a Bull Rush, and not illustrate some crazy comic book represantation of one.

In essence, I want the Art to be Information also, not artistic license of a fantasy vision.

 

[TwinBahamut]

This is certainly an interesting one...

For one thing, I'll agree with others that I don't really want something to "cherish". I don't think it would be a good idea to try to create the product itself with that kind of goal, for all kinds of reasons. If nothing else, you go too far that way and I won't be able to afford it!

The other two, "consume" and "engage", are both pretty important. I want them to cater to both. The issue, though, is figuring out how to balance them properly. As far as I can figure, the important thing for that is to let the needs of "consuming" govern the structure of the books. The books absolutely need to be easily readable and laid out for easy reference. But, once that structure is in place, let the text and art be very engaging. Don't let that engaging text and art mess up the functionality of the book as a rulebook, but it should still work to avoid being a giant, dry list of rules.

 

[avin]

I'm not really seeing how "Cherish" is something that can be a design goal, really. It sounds like something that is completely wrapped up in people's own minds and experiences with the game.

Deluxe editions prove there's market for that, and it's far from subjetive.

 

[Mercutio01]

Deluxe editions prove there's market for that, and it's far from subjetive.

What are the sales numbers for the deluxe editions like compared to the regular versions? I don't buy them. I can't afford to. Focusing that much effort into the cherish side of the equation prices me out of being a customer.

 

[dkyle]

Deluxe editions prove there's market for that, and it's far from subjetive.

Except that the example of "Cherish" in the article was a duct-taped, scribbled-on, well-worn book from over 30 years ago, with value well beyond monetary. That's what I don't think can really be designed for.

Sure, they can do Deluxe edition-style things, but that strikes me as a rather separate axis of design than Engage vs. Consume. Both novels and dictionaries can be bought in paper-back or leather-bound versions.

 

[nightwalker450]

What I'd like from a book...

The size of the Essentials books, the art/style of 3e, but enough crunch data that I don't feel there's things missing, and its easy to reference (The Essentials books were lacking in this, with having to flip through the entire class level by level to figure out its defining points, instead of having all of that up front).

Player's Handbook, I want to look more like a D&D Field Guide. Some commentary on the races/classes, but mostly facts that will help in creating my persona, and playing the game. I don't need/want flavor text for every spell/feat give me a single paragraph at the beginning of the spells/feats section. Put flavor text into races/classes/deities and other things that the primary drive is fluff, not crunch.

The reason I want the 3e artwork, is because its more towards the flavor of the book. This isn't a heroic action picture book, it's a guide to living in the D&D world, so sketch art/diagrams seems so much more fitting. The bright and vibrant pictures seem to be competing with whats in the book, instead of enhancing it.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I'm almost the exact opposite. I far prefer the Pathfinder book to the 4th Ed book. Both from the perspective of reading it the first time AND from the perspective of looking something up in play.

Perhaps it is just familiarity since the Pathfinder fairly closely follows the 3.5 books and I was already very familiar with them. But it feels to be something more fundamental than that.

Yet more evidence (as if more was needed ) that us gamers are a contrary bunch . What one person loves another will hate.

The other dimension of it is we evolve. 30 years ago the PF core book might have appealed much more to me than it does now. My old eyes don't handle the smaller fonts and lower contrast that well. I have less time to read complex and irregularly structured material, and less time and propensity to master it. Back in the old days I'd have been more excited about complicated subsystems and whatnot. I guess that's a way of saying the same thing, except my needs have changed and with them my tastes.

Anyway, I think there's plenty of room for a rather functional book which is still more engaging than 4e seems to be for many people. I don't think a more light conversational tone, more fluff, or more focus on aspects of the game that 4e didn't spend much time on are incompatible with the crunch being really clearly laid out and structured. I think we can 'have our cake and eat it too' in this respect. I'd note that the AD&D books were both engaging and laid out in a fairly clean way, though I can't say the rules were all that well structured.

My final comment would be that one of the things I valued the most through the years about the 1e core books is their sheer durability. My 1e books are first printings I bought when they each came out. None of those 3 books has a broken spine, damaged cover, etc. They are FAR from looking new, but they are also STILL after 30+ years holding up and have plenty of life left in them. My 2e books in contrast are a shambles. Every one of them has loose pages and a shot binding, even though I took good care of them. The 4e books sadly are on a par with 2e. They're not BAD, but they won't last 20 years, no way. My PHB1 is already showing signs of getting ready to disintegrate. AV1 started falling apart after 2 months. Its hard to 'cherish' a book that can't hold together. I am glad I have my 2e books still, they're handy, but they don't have the same value to me as the 1e books do at this point. I'd hope 5e might be bound to archival quality on paper that will last. Maybe that's impossible in today's economy, but it would sure be nice.

 

[Daven]

The most simple thing would be to produce each of the three possible products, the consume one possibly online.