Continuation of Nyaricus's VP/WP Community Project

[genshou]

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache...site:www.enworld.org&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

The above URL should lead to Google's cached version of the thread, which sadly only contains 11 of the thread's posts.

Luckily, the rules I spoke of before it crashed were from an older thread, and I should be able to find it in my subscriptions in a bit. Gotta find some other lost threads I want to save on my computer, first.

 

[Nyaricus]

hey thanks man

well, let's try and see what we can do with this thread, shall we.

We were talking about crit ranges and how to "fix" them with VP/WP. I suggested that the first x1 goes to VP, and the rest go to WP. This makes it so that weapons with higher crit ranges (and with correspondingly lower crit multipliers) would do WP damage more often, but with less effect, and so that ones with a lower crit range but higher crit multiplier would do WP damage less, but more when it happens.

any comments on this?

Thanks Genshou for everything.

 

[genshou]

Well, I'm still in the camp that the original damage should apply to wound damage and all the bonus damage should apply to vitality, but it's easy to move a number or two around for those who prefer different rules. The writeup's pretty much the same either way.

While looking at some of GlassJaw's old threads about this, I found some really interesting stuff I'll try to share piece by piece.

For starters, in this thread, he originally started out asking about using a massive damage threshold with VP/WP, but eventually they started discussing not healing vitality points until wound points were healed, and a mechanic came up about having wound point loss affect your maximum vitality points. My version of this is in post #31, and though there are a few things I'd probably adjust to make it easier during gameplay, the basics of the rule are there and are what I was referring to when somebody (no idea who) was asking about that in the pre-recovery thread.

In the last thread Ken Hood's Grim-n-Gritty Revised and Simplified was brought up. This made me think about the original Grim-n-Gritty, and about how it had an alternate sneak attack mechanic that would do wonders in VP/WP. I'll hunt that down next.

Edit: Here you go! Note that some references to called shots should be ignored, as this is actually written for an alternate combat system.

Sneak Attacks

The sneak attack ability of characters such as the rogue or assassin is based upon their ability to catch an opponent unawares and strike a vital spot for extra damage. Since the Called Shot system provides detailed mechanics for striking an opponent in this fashion, and also because characters have fewer Hit Points in the Grim-n-Gritty system, it is inappropriate for rogues, assassins, and other “sneak attackers” to gain extra damage to their attacks.

In the Grim-n-Gritty system, characters with the sneak attack ability gain a bonus to attack rolls and their critical threat range. Whenever a character with sneak attack ability flanks an opponent or catches an opponent in a situation that denies the Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), he gains the bonus. The primary intent of the bonus is to allow the character to easily deliver Called Shots, but it can be used for normal attacks.

To convert a standard character’s sneak attack damage bonus to the Grim-n-Gritty attack/threat bonus, use table CS-3. Find the character’s damage bonus and replace it with the attack roll and threat range bonus on the same row.

Total Standard    Attack    Threat
Damage Bonus      Bonus     Bonus
+1d6              +4        +0
+2d6              +4        +1
+3d6              +5        +1
+4d6              +5        +2
+5d6              +6        +2
+6d6              +6        +3
+7d6              +7        +3
+8d6              +7        +4
+9d6              +8        +4
+10d6             +8        +5

I like this mechanic for VP/WP because it doesn't create insane amounts of damage, and it makes sneak attack very useful for bypassing vitality points, meaning that it does exactly what it should. When a foe sneak attacks it's much more likely that the blow they land will be that telling blow that you just don't avoid. I haven't playtested this yet, having become aware of it after I've started any VP/WP games, but it might be all right to only have the attack roll bonus apply to critical confirmation rolls, or get rid of it entirely. A +5 bonus to threat range is already extremely useful.

 

[Nyaricus]

hmmm, Genshou, that is also very interesting... Let me think here for a moment.

Well, I think the bonus to BAB is too high - they are outpacing fighters in this situation (although at less one attack - but the rest will hit more often with that +4 above what a fighter has). Personally, I think this should be toned down for D&D just a tad, but still making them useful in combat in this situation. I think a total of +5 to attack would be fine - this gives them plenty of chances to hit now, and makes sneak attacks quite potent. As for the crit range, this is good too - which might mesh well with my system above. A rogue would crit more often and hit more often and whatnot, but only when flanking or when catching a foe flat-footed. Sounds liek an excellent start to something. Altogether very interesting.

Thanks for your diligence Genshou - 'tis much appreciated.

 

[genshou]

The attack roll bonus is really meant to function in Grim-n-Gritty, where higher attack rolls means more damage and also means you can more easily make called shots. On further review I think it'd be fine to get rid of it entirely and just keep the threat range increase.

 

[Nyaricus]

The attack roll bonus is really meant to function in Grim-n-Gritty, where higher attack rolls means more damage and also means you can more easily make called shots. On further review I think it'd be fine to get rid of it entirely and just keep the threat range increase.

Hmmm, well this would really work when more voices are giveing input (I lookin' at you guys ) But I don't see why not either way.

I personally think more feedback would be good, but this is defintly interesting discussion Genshou.

BTW, I am interested in PbP still - do you have any spots left? Any start date? Thanks.

 

[genshou]

I was losing my internet access periodically while EN World was crashing, and I needed to re-download and re-read the ruleset we'll be using (Classically Modern). Before I do that, I have work today followed by a third interview for a new job. Once I've finished brushing up on the ruleset, I need to do some planning and design before I'll have all the details I need to start off. No idea when I'll be ready, but I'll email you when the time comes.