Continued support for OOP editions-why?

[Rechan]

Because keeping it in print, on ALL of the store shelves, keeps the game more viable, meaning it keeps attracting new players, because it exists, on the book shelves.

IE to buy a product you have to know it exists in the first place. Going OOP takes it out of the sight of the general consumer, so the games player base dies off, and the DM/GM has an increasingly harder time getting people to try an old OOP game.

Why? Because the perception is that it most have went OOP because it sucked. If it was good it would still be in print. So why play a game that sucks so much its no longer printed?

So, newbie gamer walks into a gaming store. Goes to the RPG section, sees sitting on the shelf "D&D 3.5" and "D&D 4e". If new players are walking into the store, they are likely going to pick up the book their friends/potential gaming group are using.

If they're new people, with no group all ready, which do you think he's going to pick up? The earlier edition? Like you say, they must have went to a new edition because "the earlier edition sucks". So regardless of if the books are on the shelves or not, the new gamer is going to go with the "most current" edition, correct?

For that matter, even if older editions were in print, do you think they would make separate areas for 2e, 3e, and 4e, with all the splats? Many gaming stores reported drops in 3.5 sales after the 4e announcement; even if the books were in print, do you think gaming stores would want to sell older editions?

And, I have to ask you a question, based on this quote:

keeps the game more viable, meaning it keeps attracting new playe

Why is it important to you what edition new people are playing?

 

[Treebore]

So, newbie gamer walks into a gaming store. Goes to the RPG section, sees sitting on the shelf "D&D 3.5" and "D&D 4e". If new players are walking into the store, they are likely going to pick up the book their friends/potential gaming group are using.

If they're new people, with no group all ready, which do you think he's going to pick up? The earlier edition? Like you say, they must have went to a new edition because "the earlier edition sucks". So regardless of if the books are on the shelves or not, the new gamer is going to go with the "most current" edition, correct?

For that matter, even if older editions were in print, do you think they would make separate areas for 2e, 3e, and 4e, with all the splats? Many gaming stores reported drops in 3.5 sales after the 4e announcement; even if the books were in print, do you think gaming stores would want to sell older editions?

And, I have to ask you a question, based on this quote:
Why is it important to you what edition new people are playing?

I wrote you a nice long response, but then this piece of crap ENWorld server ate it and I am not feeling like trying to recreate it right now. Maybe later, after I calm down. Assuming this post actually makes it.

 

[Flatus Maximus]

I'm not sure how you got that impression.

Maybe when I read the title of the thread?

 

[Keefe the Thief]

It´s mainly a social thing. Games are not only about playing them - talking about stuff is a big part of the experience. Just look at threads like that from Thalmin, telling us what new shiny is coming out. Or threads like "ooooh, i got X early!"
Moving product really invigorates a community - just look at Dragonsfoot: Flaming the "Wizards presents" books and calling people 4rons practically became unimportant to new releases, talk about product etc.

 

[Agamon]

Good question. Some people like new shinies, and if they're playing an older system that's tough to come by, so it's understandable that way.

Personally, I've learned my lesson. Give me the game and I don't care about additional support. I'll buy new adventures to steal from, but honestly, I've got enough old adventures from every edition to steal from for a very long time already. And something I learned in 2E and had to relearn in 3E is that splatbook hoarding is not for me.

 

[Delta]

And, I have to ask you a question, based on this quote: Why is it important to you what edition new people are playing?

So there's as robust a community as possible to form playgroups from. More people equals easier for me to find players for my preferred game.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Some of us, even armed with every quality 3.X product WotC and the 3PPs released and a fertile imagination still hunger for more support for a game

How much more support is needed?

Needed? None.

Desired? Lots!

Quote:

to certain viewpoints, didn't need replacing

No game needs replacing. And a new edition doesn't replace the old one. Older editions are not recalled.

"Replacing" in the market, supplanting the edition that we prefer. Causing that particular well to run dry.

I've been playing for 30 years or so, DMing on and off for 25 years of that time. I don't use all the stuff I've bought for any edition of any game, but its nice to have that stuff on your shelf to go to in case you run out of time or you hit a creative wall.

For stimulating the mind, if nothing else, replenishing the creative wellspring with the ideas of other gamers.

Yeah. I mean how long, gaming one night a week, would it take before you'd run every 3.x adventure published by WotC, Necromancer Games, Paizo, Green Ronin, Goodman Games, Atlas Games Penumbra line and Malhavoc Press? I'd estimate 1200 years. And that's mostly good quality stuff too.

Just because its all good doesn't mean its all good to me. I have a lot from most of the publishers you just listed...but almost nothing from Goodman.

Its no slight on Goodman Games, its just that I haven't seen much from them that fits my needs.

still hunger for more support

Why?

What do you mean? Aren't you a human being?

As such, then, you should understand that humans generally dislike it when commercial products they enjoy change, or worse, dissapear altogether.

If your favorite restaraunt of all closed its doors tomorrow, wouldn't you be reminiscing about your favorite dishes years from now?

If your favorite band of all time broke up tomorrow, its members never to record again, wouldn't you occasionally speculate about what might have been?

So... even though my 3.X books won't dissapear, barring something quite unusual, supplements for that gem will eventually evaporate from the shelves of all but resellers.

Why is it important to you what edition new people are playing?

Because it affects the size of the pool of gamers from which you can draw new recruits.

Personally, I'm a member of several game groups, one of which has had a stable core of 3 gamers since 1988, and another that has been gaming together since 1998 with only a couple of dropouts.

Some in the groups are D&D only. Neither group is going to 4Ed as its primary game.

So...one of those groups loses a player, from where will they recruit replacements? From the dwindling numbers of 3.X gamers.

(How big a pool that is depends on a variety of variables.)

 

[RFisher]

I'm curious to people's reasoning behind the worry of "lack of support for edition X"

I’ve never been one to buy a lot of the “support” stuff, so that doesn’t really bother me.

I’m a bit uncomfortable, however, if a player joins the group and wants to buy his own copy of the rules, and I have to send him to eBay, Half Price Books, or to buy a not-so-good scanned PDF.

Although I’m fine with all those options myself.

I don’t know why I feel that way.

So, newbie gamer walks into a gaming store. Goes to the RPG section, sees sitting on the shelf "D&D 3.5" and "D&D 4e".

Games as different as 3e and 4e shouldn’t both be called “D&D”.

When D&D 4e came out, was there as big a drop in the sales of GURPS 4/e as D&D 3.5e? I doubt it.† It’s only the fact that 4e and 3.5e are both called “D&D” that caused that.

If you had D&D (i.e. classic D&D), AD&D, Alternity Fantasy (or d20 Fantasy), and Whizzy New Fantasy RPG on the shelves, it’d work just fine.

(Though, certainly you end up with other issues.)

†I imagine: Sure, the people who play both games probably shifted some dollars into the D&D column, but then you had the 3.5 die-hards who bought something GURPS out of spite. ^_^

 

[Rechan]

Needed? None.

Desired? Lots!

A better question:

How many would you expect?

"Replacing" in the market, supplanting the edition that we prefer. Causing that particular well to run dry.

You're only going to buy the books you want. And you can obviously buy them. You're not going to need a second Complete Adventurer down the road, are you?

I've been playing for 30 years or so, DMing on and off for 25 years of that time. I don't use all the stuff I've bought for any edition of any game, but its nice to have that stuff on your shelf to go to in case you run out of time or you hit a creative wall.

Good thing they're sittin' there on your shelf, then.

What do you mean? Aren't you a human being?

"Because I'm human, and therefore emotional" doesn't really, uh, answer the question on a rational level.

If your favorite restaraunt of all closed its doors tomorrow, wouldn't you be reminiscing about your favorite dishes years from now?

If your favorite band of all time broke up tomorrow, its members never to record again, wouldn't you occasionally speculate about what might have been?

Speculation, reminiscent, is one thing. Gnashing of teeth, being upset, and wanting/expecting a company to continue something that's just not a good idea is another.

If your favorite restaurant wasn't getting enough customers, would you expect them, and complain about them not staying open because you still liked the food? Would you expect or complain about your favorite band not making more music/touring if not enough people are buying the CDs/tour tickets to make the ends meet?

So... even though my 3.X books won't dissapear, barring something quite unusual, supplements for that gem will eventually evaporate from the shelves of all but resellers.

So, the suggestion is that the company should print more of the books, even though they will sell much rarer than they used to?

Because it affects the size of the pool of gamers from which you can draw new recruits.

Personally, I'm a member of several game groups, one of which has had a stable core of 3 gamers since 1988, and another that has been gaming together since 1998 with only a couple of dropouts.

Some in the groups are D&D only. Neither group is going to 4Ed as its primary game.

So...one of those groups loses a player, from where will they recruit replacements? From the dwindling numbers of 3.X gamers.

And do you honestly think that would change if 3.5 was still being printed, on gaming store shelves, besides the 4e books?

 

[Rechan]

So there's as robust a community as possible to form playgroups from. More people equals easier for me to find players for my preferred game.

Except that it isn't going to happen. I reference back to "Gaming store has 2e, 3e, and 4e books on the shelf" discussion.

Or, you could just... recruit new gamers and teach them 3e.

At least you have the D&D brand name. Those of us who play indie RPGs (which are in print) have to recruit other gamers or try and find new gamers to come "try out this new game you have never heard about".