Controllers need more powers?

[theNater]

Controllers have to messed up enemy tactics. They need:

anti big tough melee guy powers (soldiers, brutes)
anti fast and sneaky melee creature power (lurkers, skirmishers)
anti minion power
anti ranged damage power (AOE damage controllers, artillery)
anti controller/leader power (nonAOE controllers, leaders)

But you only have 2 at will, 4 encounters, and 4 dailies at most. You have to either spread out your powers against a lot of types or foucs heavily on a few type. If you spread your powers, you only get 1 or 2 tries to control any given type for 1-4 turns. If you focused your powers, you put all the weight on your allies and are praying not to see many of the ignored types.

A wizard has to work at it to avoid picking up anti-minion powers. So we only really need to pick powers for 4 groups of monsters, not 5. There are three options that appeal to my love of needless symmetry.

1)Select one encounter and one daily power for dealing with each category. If a few of the critters from the category appear in the encounter, hit 'em with the encounter power. If a lot of them show up, or if your encounter power doesn't stick, hit 'em with the daily. It provides partial success at least.

2)Select two encounters and two dailies for each of two categories. I recommend the two melee categories, because I suspect a monster team without some kind of front line is going to get eaten alive by defenders and strikers. This way you've got 4 options for dealing with each of your appropriate categories, and two of those options are certain to achieve something.

3)Select all of your powers to target one category. You'll have trouble being optimally useful in some battles, but when you run into your preferred target, you will own the battlefield.

One of the beautiful things about being a wizard is the spellbook. If you're hitting an orc camp, where you might expect a lot of brutes, you can load up your dailies with anti-brute spells. Your encounter powers will probably not be ready to target brutes, so you can use them for any enemies in the other categories that happen to be around.

In 3rd, you could grab some wands and scrolls for special monsters and load your lower level slots with special spells and handle almost anything. In 3rd, when you hit someone with a condition, it stuck for a while.

In 4th, you're stuck with what powers you got and force allies to take what you can't handle. In 4th, when you hit someone with a condition, it sticks for a bit.

While it's not the "have a wand for every possible situation" from 3rd edition, 4th edition's implements do have a variety of powers available. Carrying around a backup wand with a power that targets the category you are otherwise least equipped to deal with is entirely reasonable.

On the issue of durations, I suspect that the change is designed to keep combats dynamic. You can no longer permanently remove a foe from the entire combat with a single spell. So you have to keep an eye on what everybody is up to all the time.

 

[Ahglock]

Umm? This is just a matter of your view. From the controller's perspective she's the hero. After disabling a bunch of them with a sleep spell, the side-kicks (read: strikers) get to dispatch them. How is that heroic? The REAL work has already been done by the controller.

Basically only sleep actually does any disabling for the controller, or maybe legions hold. Other than that the controller does crappy damage to an an area with some minor inconvenience effect attached.

Which is irrelevant to the point I was making. The post I was quoting, said basically, Controllers deal with the minions and other weak monsters, strikers get to deal with the elite and solo mobs. Which really is another way of saying you are Robin dealing with the Boss's thugs and the striker is batman taking out the Joker.

I am not even saying 4e is trying to do this. But that was the apparent philosophy of the person I quoted, which is something I strongly disagree with.

 

[Minigiant]

2)Select two encounters and two dailies for each of two categories. I recommend the two melee categories, because I suspect a monster team without some kind of front line is going to get eaten alive by defenders and strikers. This way you've got 4 options for dealing with each of your appropriate categories, and two of those options are certain to achieve something.

3)Select all of your powers to target one category. You'll have trouble being optimally useful in some battles, but when you run into your preferred target, you will own the battlefield.

At the moment option 2 and 3 (focusing on melee attackers) are the only real ways to make control wizards now.

Enc1: Chill Strike, Icy Terrain, or Ray of Enfeeblement
Daily1: Sleep or Sleep
Enc3: Color Spray or Icy Rays
Daily5: Icy Grasp or Web
etc

Or take all the cold powers (for slow/immobilized/difficult terrain) if you just want to hold brutes and soldiers still.

 

[Gort]

The title of this thread amuses me, given that our controller (wizard) has more powers than anyone else in the party already.

 

[theNater]

At the moment option 2 and 3 (focusing on melee attackers) are the only real ways to make control wizards now.

Enc1: Chill Strike, Icy Terrain, or Ray of Enfeeblement
Daily1: Sleep or Sleep
Enc3: Color Spray or Icy Rays
Daily5: Icy Grasp or Web
etc

Or take all the cold powers (for slow/immobilized/difficult terrain) if you just want to hold brutes and soldiers still.

That looks like it'll mess up melee foes pretty good. Let's try one for artillery. I'm assuming artillery will tend to have poor fortitude defenses, and will have relatively low hit points.

Enc1: Ray of Enfeeblement(targets fort, weakened is always good).
Daily1: Flaming Sphere(gives the artillery a reason to move, making slows and immobilizes better).
Enc3: Icy Rays or Shock Sphere(depending on how much clustering you expect and whether you'll have zones/conjurations messing with them).
Daily5: Stinking Cloud(blocks line of sight, gives reason to move).
Enc7: Winter's Wrath(grants concealment).
etc.

There may be fewer choices for artillery, but there are enough.