D&D 4E Converting 4E bits to 3.X

[Knightfall]

I run Mooks has HD = Hits so a 1HD mook requires 1 hit to kill (ie roll BAb if you hit the mook dies) it also allows for stronger mooks eg a 3HD mook requires 3 hits to kill

That's very interesting. I like.

 

[Nyaricus]

The 4e Skill list has inspired me to finally cut all the slack in the 3e Skill list, so that the final product of these ventures is a (MUCH) slimmer, tidy little list of really anything a character would ask for in 3.5E anyways (BTW, I would like feedback on that, so please gimme some!).

Also, Weapon Groups are core for my players (see here, though that version is outdated ATM).

I like the idea of a longer day in 3E, so I might very well convert over Healing Surges, and finally start to use Action Points in 3e.

I also REALLY like how the races are more focused on giving you bonuses than penalties, and ever since I downloaded the 3.xe conversion of Dark Sun, and see how ALL the races are +1 LA, and now how in 4e basically ALL the races are +1 LA (in all but name), I think I might just go ahead and give my races a boost based on this new paradigm.



Other than that, I really have only played 4e once, and looked at the books a handful of times. I'm sure I'm missing out on plenty of things here, but it's not as if I'm going to completely abandon 3e and the hundreds (likely thousands) of dollars I've spent on books, dice, pencils and paper for the uncounted characters I've created and had great times with these past 8 years. I've sure there's plenty of 4e I want in my 3e and plenty of 3e I want in my 4e

cheers,
--N

 

[Woundweaver]

I run Mooks has HD = Hits so a 1HD mook requires 1 hit to kill (ie roll BAb if you hit the mook dies) it also allows for stronger mooks eg a 3HD mook requires 3 hits to kill

One problem with that is any character who does large amounts of damage may kill non mooks easier than mooks. We had a barbarian who did all power attack all the time. Since the rest of the party was typically boosted his attack roll in some way (bard singing, rogues flanking, mage hasting, etc), he tended to hit fairly often and for large amounts of damage.

Also with spells, does it require three disintigration or fireball spells to kill the mook? Or will 3 level 0 acid splashes do the same thing?

 

[Knightfall]

One problem with that is any character who does large amounts of damage may kill non mooks easier than mooks. We had a barbarian who did all power attack all the time. Since the rest of the party was typically boosted his attack roll in some way (bard singing, rogues flanking, mage hasting, etc), he tended to hit fairly often and for large amounts of damage.

Yeah, I thought about that after the fact. In order for the "rule" to work, You'd have to get your players to buy into the idea that that actual damage rolled vs. mooks doesn't matter and that it is the number of hits that does matter.

That could be a problem for the gamers I've played with in the past.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

The skill *list*. So far that's all I can find worth cribbing (unless my players force 4e on me as it seems likely).

Thankfully, the decision of whether or not to convert to 4E is all my decision.

I'm honestly considering dropping the skill system from 3x, entirely. In it's place, I'm considering using the Castles & Crusades Siege system.

Friend of mine said the healing surges are neat, but I'm still not sure.

We implemented a home-brewed healing surge system for 3.x and got to use it last session. I thought it worked great, but it really emphasized how little hit points have to do with the ability to take literal physical damage. That really irritated one of my players. He wants to drastically cut hit points (so that they only represent the ability to take physical damage) and increase dodge bonuses for characters, instead. Problem is, I don't know how well this will work for different kinds of monsters.

I really liked the healing surges, though.

 

[Scurvy_Platypus]

One problem with that is any character who does large amounts of damage may kill non mooks easier than mooks. We had a barbarian who did all power attack all the time. Since the rest of the party was typically boosted his attack roll in some way (bard singing, rogues flanking, mage hasting, etc), he tended to hit fairly often and for large amounts of damage.

Actually, I think the easy way to handle that is to go ahead and let the player roll the damage as normal, and it just does "spillover" damage.

Take the "average" or middle damage of the weapon type, and anything over that counts as an additional "hit".

So a longsword does d8 damage, just say every 1-4 points of damage is a hit.

If the character in question is doing enough damage to the front rank of mooks to take them all out, and still has damage left over, then the front rank of 'em goes flying and slam into the ones behind, and disable them.

Also with spells, does it require three disintigration or fireball spells to kill the mook? Or will 3 level 0 acid splashes do the same thing?

Again, I'd go with the damage spill over idea for something like these spells. The Disintegration bolt passes through these lesser mortals, the fireball spell just toasts 'em, and so forth.

Something like an acid splash is enough to take out a single mook. Said mook start screaming and rolling around clutching his face as acid runs into his eyes and causes the flesh on his face to bubble.

I've been doing the "HD = number of hits" idea for mook types for a while now, and it works great. Mooks serve two purposes: 1) Use up a bit of the party's resources and 2) Make the players feel like their characters are bad-asses.

I don't tend to use 'em much as a way of siphoning off party resources. It feels kinda cheap to me to do it that way. I'd rather give the party something more like a "real" fight if I'm trying to soften them up for the Big Bad.

But to make the players feel like their characters are Bad Ass Mother@#$%... yeah, it works great. You can start off doing this at first level, and it helps to give the game that "larger than life" feel without actually increasing the group's powerlevel at all.

And when they hit the non-mook fights, the group has that instant "ok, these guys are serious" realization when they bad guys don't go down like chumps.

Some narration helps a bit with this too. The mooks and weaker stuff in my game is inclined to scream, gush or fountain blood, explode, and stuff like that. The tough guys might yell, spurt, catch on fire, and so on. The hardcore grunt, have blood flow, have their skin crisp and blacken. Basically the tougher the opponent, the more reserved the description of the effects. This helps to reinforce the mood too.

Mooks are "wah00! Mow 'em down guys!!", whereas the tougher ones require more thought and care.

 

[Achan hiArusa]

There is one thing I like about minions, you can whittle down that high damage dealing character with enough of them. Since you are supposed to have four replace one creature of equal CR then you are getting four times the damage against that heavy hitter.

 

[lior_shapira]

Getting rid of full attacks?

Did anyone try to get rid of full attacks in 3.5? Its one of the things which bothers my group the most. I want to take it out of the game, but it changes the balance of the game too much.

One option I thought about (very initial thoughts) was to have full attack be action-point powered, plus maybe one free activation per encounter. This should encourage mobility for tactical advantage and hopefully keep the balance between combat types and spellcasters

 

[Achan hiArusa]

You could try the damage bonus from Star Wars Revised, just key it to BAB, like half level for Fighters, Paladins, Barbarians, and Rangers, 1/3 level for Clerics, Druids, Bards, Monk, and Rogues, and 1/5 level for Wizards and Sorcerors.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Minions, Elite and Solo Monsters.
Minions:
- Reduce Hit Points to 1/level (or just 1)
- They gain Evasion and Mettle
- CR -4

I am just afraid they might break down at high levels, since hitting with your first attack is usually not such a big problem by then. (Wulf Ratbane is certainly willing to provide evidence for any doubters. )

Elites:
- Increase Hit Point by 100 %
- Add an extra attack (Two-Weapon Fighting, Haste-like, some special ability)
- Add a reactive ability when seriously injured. (half hit points)
- +2 to all Saving Throws, +1 to AC

Solos:
- Increase Hit Points by 150 %
- Add extra attack (see elite)
- Add a reactive ability when seriously injured (half hit points)
- Add a reactive ability when flanked
- +3 to all Saving Throws, +2 to AC.