Converting Al-Qadim creatures

[Shade]

2d6 Con maybe? Or 2d4 if that seems too much.

If you agree on Dex vs Str, I'd just like to know what Cleon thinks.

I'm fine with either amount, Dex or Str, and finding out what Cleon thinks.

 

[Cleon]

That could work, though we're still tracking bites on the DC. How abot this?

Venom (Ex): A tatalla's bite injects a toxin that causes weakness and illness, and eventually, death. A victim of a tatalla's bite must succeed on a DC X Fortitude save or become sickened for 1d4 minutes. A victim who is already sickened (such as from a previous bite) instead suffers 1d6 points of Strength damage and must succeed on a DC X Fortitude save or become nauseated for 1d4 rounds. After the nausea passes, it must then succeed on another DC X Fortitude save or become sickened for 1d3 days. A victim who is already nauseated (such as from previous bites) suffers 1d6 points of Constitution damage and must succeed on a DC X Fortitude save or become sickend for an additional 1d3 days. The save DCs are Constitution-based. Recall that sickened creatures take a -2 penalty to saving throws; nauseated creatures take a -4 circumstance penalty to saves against tatalla venom. A delay poison or neutralize poison spell removes the effect from the sickened creature. Creatures with immunity to poison are unaffected, and creatures resistant to poison receive their normal bonus on their saving throws.

Some thoughts: not sure if the Con damage is strong enough, and I'd consider swapping the Str damage for Dex like in the original.

I don't mind the basic approach, but it will only do Con damage if its victim has been given a "nausea bite" within the last 1d4 rounds, and its description clearly has it working at least 24 hours later.

For that matter, its first bite's sickness duration is too short for it to do the second bite the next night.

I would change it to a Strength damage prerequisite. Indeed, that's the reason I used ability damage as the third bite's prereq in my earlier draft.

I'd rather it did more than 2d6 Con damage, since the third bite's supposed to often be fatal. Maybe 2d8? Actually, I prefer the original 1d6 plus 2d6 approach.

I also think it's easier to follow if we break each bite's effects into a separate paragraph.

Finally, I'd prefer it if the cumulative effects only worked with its own venom, e.g. "A victim who is already sickened by tartalla venom" instead of "A victim who is already sickened (such as from a previous bite)".

How about:

Venom (Ex): A tatalla's bite injects a toxin that causes weakness, illness, and, eventually, death. A delay poison or neutralize poison spell will counter the venom's effects on a bitten creature. Creatures with immunity to poison are unaffected, and creatures resistant to poison receive their normal bonus on their saving throws.

A victim of a tatalla's bite becomes sickened for 1d4 rounds, after the sickness passes it must succeed on a DC X Fortitude save or become sickened for 1d2 days.

A victim who is already sickened by a previous tatalla bite instead suffers 1d6 points of Strength damage and must succeed on a DC X Fortitude save or become nauseated for 1d4 rounds. After the nausea passes, it must then succeed on another DC X Fortitude save or become sickened for 1d3 days.

A victim who is affected by Strength damage from a previous bite suffers 1d6 Constitution damage and must succeed on a DC X Fortitude save or take 2d6 additional points of Constitution damage and become sickened for an additional 1d3 days.

The save DCs are Constitution-based. Recall that sickened creatures take a -2 penalty to saving throws; nauseated creatures take a -4 circumstance penalty to saves against tatalla venom.

 

[freyar]

The problem is changing the types of conditions we're tracking from bite to bite. It just feels too much bookkeeping. And, besides, might not being sick from some other disease make you more vulnerable to the venom?

As for the other version, just imagine the tatalla giving 2 bites per night.

 

[Shade]

I'm with freyar on this one. A direct translation just doesn't work well here. You can save it for the Cleon Special TM.

 

[Cleon]

The problem is changing the types of conditions we're tracking from bite to bite. It just feels too much bookkeeping. And, besides, might not being sick from some other disease make you more vulnerable to the venom?

As for the other version, just imagine the tatalla giving 2 bites per night.

Well I'd accept the sickness interchangeability.

As for imagining 2 bites per night, the original clearly says they favour 1 bite per night. That could even be read as meaning they can only use one "dose" of venom per night.

Also, the Constitution damage prereq still needs fixing. Its poison does Con damage when the victim is nauseated, which only lasts for 1d4 rounds. It really has to be something else, such as my proposed Str damage, for the tatalla to give a potentially fatal bite the next night.

 

[freyar]

You know, I'm getting what I think is an acceptable idea as a compromise, but it's going to take me a little to figure it out. I'll try to get back to this tonight, since I need to go make dinner now.

 

[Cleon]

You know, I'm getting what I think is an acceptable idea as a compromise, but it's going to take me a little to figure it out. I'll try to get back to this tonight, since I need to go make dinner now.

I don't mind waiting.

 

[Shade]

Nor I. So what are we having for dinner?

 

[freyar]

Last night, baked pasta casserole. Tonight, dahl makhni.

See what you think, then we can settle on Str/Dex and any numbers.

Venom (Ex): A tatalla's bite injects a toxin that causes weakness and illness, and eventually, death. A victim of a tatalla's bite must succeed on a DC X Fortitude save or become sickened for 4d12 hours. A victim who is already sickened (such as from a previous bite) instead suffers 1d6 points of Strength damage and must succeed on a DC X Fortitude save or become nauseated for 1d4 rounds. After the nausea passes, it must then succeed on another DC X Fortitude save or contract tatalla wasting (see below). A victim who already suffers from tatalla wasting takes 2d6 points of Constitution damage as well as the penalties for being sickened. The save DCs are Constitution-based. Recall that sickened creatures have a -2 penalty on all saves. A delay poison or neutralize poison spell removes the effect from the sickened creature. Creatures with immunity to poison are unaffected, and creatures resistant to poison receive their normal bonus on their saving throws.

Tatalla wasting (Ex): disease - bite, Fortitude DC X, incubation period 1 minute; damage sickened for 1 day and an additional -2 circumstance penalty on saves against tatalla venom. The save DC is Constitution-based. While delay poison and neutralize poison may cure tatalla wasting just as remove disease and similar magic.

 

[Cleon]

Last night, baked pasta casserole. Tonight, dahl makhni.

See what you think, then we can settle on Str/Dex and any numbers.

Venom (Ex): A tatalla's bite injects a toxin that causes weakness and illness, and eventually, death. A victim of a tatalla's bite must succeed on a DC X Fortitude save or become sickened for 4d12 hours. A victim who is already sickened (such as from a previous bite) instead suffers 1d6 points of Strength damage and must succeed on a DC X Fortitude save or become nauseated for 1d4 rounds. After the nausea passes, it must then succeed on another DC X Fortitude save or contract tatalla wasting (see below). A victim who already suffers from tatalla wasting takes 2d6 points of Constitution damage as well as the penalties for being sickened. The save DCs are Constitution-based. Recall that sickened creatures have a -2 penalty on all saves. A delay poison or neutralize poison spell removes the effect from the sickened creature. Creatures with immunity to poison are unaffected, and creatures resistant to poison receive their normal bonus on their saving throws.

Tatalla wasting (Ex): disease - bite, Fortitude DC X, incubation period 1 minute; damage sickened for 1 day and an additional -2 circumstance penalty on saves against tatalla venom. The save DC is Constitution-based. While delay poison and neutralize poison may cure tatalla wasting just as remove disease and similar magic.

That seems at least as complicated as some of the previous proposals.

I prefer an "all poison" approach, but if Shade's OK with it I guess I can go along with poison+disease. It's not that different from a "Con damage if weakened" mechanic.

Does the resistance to poison bonus apply to saves against the Tatalla wasting disease too? If so, I think you should make that explicit at the end of the first paragraph.

Also, does it need the "While" in "While delay poison and neutralize poison".

One advantage is an incubation period give a reason for the "bite and come back" approach - they have to wait for the wasting to kick in before the venom does lethal damage.

Actually, I quite like that side-effect of an incubation time, could we could increase the incubation period to an hour so it's not something that's useful in a protracted fight but is a "come back later" kind of threat?

Its making me warm towards this poison+disease approach...