D&D 5E Converting characters recommendations

[obatron]

I searched and found some references but figured I'd ask for more direct help...

I have to convert two 7th level D&D 4e characters to 7th level D&D 5 characters. I'm trying to keep the spirit of the character, not necessarily make them exact. One is a shadow assassin (human), the other is a Shardmind Psionic.

For the Shardmind, I'm figure on dropping Psioncis and making the shardmind one of the magic users and using the race on the DNDWiki, but was wondering if there were better options? I'd like to add the ability to change color (red, amber, green, white) and general humanoid shape (humanoid, tall thin humaniod, stocky short humanoid (dwarf), short fat humanoid (halfling)) just because it seemed like they should have that ability. I don't know if that's worth modding that racial description or if it could be added without undo unbalancing...

I've seen options for using the Shadow Monk and Warlock for the Shadow Assassin, but not sure what mix. For this one, the person I'm converting it for would like to keep some semblance of the powers (Shadow Darts, Shadow Step, Shrouds). Not looking for an exact copy, just enough to keep the spirit of the character abilities and not have to request the DM to home rule heavily.

Shadow Assassin (Human):
Str: 10
Con: 15
Dex: 21
Int: 10
Wis: 8
Cha: 11

Emerald Ki Focus

Blind-fighting Sentinel
Assassin's Shroud
Bleak Disciple
Guild Training
Mercenary Starting Feature
Shade Form
Shadow Step
Mercenary Level 5 feature
Brutal Shroud
Lethal Shroud
Inexorable Shroud

--Bob

 

[DEFCON 1]

As far as the Shadow Assassin is concerned... if you decide to go warlock, I made a Shadowlord warlock pact for my own 5E game. He was a Dark pact warlock in 4E so I recreated it in 5E. It's really just an adaption of some of the other 5E pact abilities with some shadow flavor so that I know they are balanced.


THE SHADOWLORD PACT

EXPANDED SPELL LIST
The Shadowlord lets you choose from an expanded list of spells when you learn a warlock spell. The following spells are added to the warlock spell list for you.

Spell Level: Spells
1st: bane, false life
2nd: blindness/deafness, pass without trace
3rd: animate dead, nondetection
4th: death ward, evard’s black tentacles
5th: contagion, dispel evil and good


SPITEFUL GLAMOR
Starting at 1st level, your patron bestows upon you the ability to project the beguiling and fearsome presence of the shadow. As an action, you can cause each creature in a 10-foot cube originating from you to make a Wisdom saving throw against your warlock spell save DC. The creatures that fail their saving throws are all charmed or frightened by you (your choice) until the end of your next turn.

Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a short or long rest.


SHADOWY ESCAPE
Starting at 6th level, you can vanish into the shadows in response to harm. When you take damage, you can use your reaction to turn invisible and teleport up to 60 feet to an unoccupied space you can see. You remain invisible until the start of your next turn or until you attack or cast a spell.

Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a short or long rest.


ENERGY SHIELD
Beginning at 10th level, you are more resistant to the life draining forces of many creatures. You have resistance to necrotic damage, and you cannot have your maximum hit point lowered due to any attack that dealt necrotic damage.


DARKSPIRAL AURA
Starting at 14th level, when you hit a creature with an attack, you can use this feature to instantly transport the target down a well of impenetrable darkness. The creature disappears and plunges down an inky black vortex through the Shadowfell.

At the end of your next turn, the target returns to the space it previously occupied, or the nearest unoccupied space. If the target is not an undead, it takes 10d10 necrotic damage as it reels from its decaying experience.

Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a short or long rest.

 

[obatron]

Okay, I think I did this right...

Monk 5/Warlock 2

Str: 10/0
Dex: 16/3
Con: 13/1
Int: 11/0
Wis: 14/2
Chr: 15/2
HD: 7d8
AC: 15
Speed: 40

Prof Bonus: +3
Saving Throws: Strength/0, Dex/3
Skills: Acrobatics/2 Arcana/0, Deception/2, Stealth/2

Tool Prof: Gaming Set, Thieves Tools
Weapon Prof: Simple Weapons
Armor: Light Armor

Features&Traits: Unarmored Defense, Martial Arts, Otherworldly Patron (ArchFey) - Fey Presence, Pact Magic, 3 KI Points, Unarmored Movement, Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, Step of the Wind, Deflect Missiles, Way of the Shadow, Slow Fall, Extra Attack, Stunning Blow

Cantrips/Spells: Eldritch Blast, Chill Touch, Minor Illusion, Arms of Hador, Hext, Hellish Rebuke, Devils Sight, Fiendish Vigor

 

[jgsugden]

My advice: Don't convert. It isn't worth it. Play out the game to a good stopping point in the current edition and then start a new game in the new edition. I've converted from Basic to AD&D, from AD&D to 2E, 2E to 3E, 3E to 3.5E, 3.5 to Pathfinder, 3.5 to 4E, Pathfinder to 4E, ... but not 4E to 5E. It just doesn't translate well. I regret converting to 4E from 3.5 and Pathfinder, too.

4E is such a different game that converting to or from it is basically an entire rewrite. You're better off just doing something entirely new rather than something 10% old.

 

[DEFCON 1]

4E is such a different game that converting to or from it is basically an entire rewrite. You're better off just doing something entirely new rather than something 10% old.

Well, it really depends. It depends on whether you as a player need consistency of attitude or consistency of action. For some people... the character is who they are-- their emotions, their needs, their desires, their attitude. How the character is "roleplayed" basically. But what they do-- the actions they take, the skills and combat styles they know and fight with-- that's all fungible.

Whereas for some other people, there is a much greater desire for their character to be able to do what it was they did before. If they had the ability to knock someone backwards 15 feet with a swing of their maul... they want to still be able to do that after conversion. If they could be a non-magical character but could replace an ally's hit points just as well as a magical character... they still need to be able to do that after conversion.

The players in the former group are much more likely able to change editions and convert characters than the latter group, simply because the edition change *is* a mechanics change. And if you need mechanics (or "what characters can do") to be fairly spot on in both edition formats... you'll have many more hoops to jump through to try and make that happen. Requiring multi-classing, needing more feats, using all manner of special rules from the DMG... all in an effort of having your 5E PC match as closely to what the 4E PC could do mechanically. For those folks... it might certainly be more trouble that it's worth.

But I know for me personally... being someone who focuses more on who the character is rather than what he can do... I can change edition-- or heck change GAME SYSTEM-- and still have my character be my character regardless. Because how I choose to roleplay (which is mechanics-free) is what makes my PC who his or she is, not the stats on the sheet. I'm lucky in that way.

 

[obatron]

Well, it really depends. It depends on whether you as a player need consistency of attitude or consistency of action. For some people... the character is who they are-- their emotions, their needs, their desires, their attitude. How the character is "roleplayed" basically. But what they do-- the actions they take, the skills and combat styles they know and fight with-- that's all fungible.

Whereas for some other people, there is a much greater desire for their character to be able to do what it was they did before. If they had the ability to knock someone backwards 15 feet with a swing of their maul... they want to still be able to do that after conversion. If they could be a non-magical character but could replace an ally's hit points just as well as a magical character... they still need to be able to do that after conversion.

The players in the former group are much more likely able to change editions and convert characters than the latter group, simply because the edition change *is* a mechanics change. And if you need mechanics (or "what characters can do") to be fairly spot on in both edition formats... you'll have many more hoops to jump through to try and make that happen. Requiring multi-classing, needing more feats, using all manner of special rules from the DMG... all in an effort of having your 5E PC match as closely to what the 4E PC could do mechanically. For those folks... it might certainly be more trouble that it's worth.

But I know for me personally... being someone who focuses more on who the character is rather than what he can do... I can change edition-- or heck change GAME SYSTEM-- and still have my character be my character regardless. Because how I choose to roleplay (which is mechanics-free) is what makes my PC who his or she is, not the stats on the sheet. I'm lucky in that way.

So nobody wants to exit the story line (congrats to the GM on his excellent homebrew!), and everyone is invested in their character. Rather than just creating 1st level characters and starting over, we thought if we could just convert the gist of the character, it wouldn't be such a jarring change. For my character, his race and personality defines him, not so much what he does, so I can easily convert the race, and I'll just pick a different class (wizard or sorcerer). My wife's assassin is more difficult because she would like to keep some semblance of what the character could do because that did define part of her character (the rest of us have been encouraging her to take over the assassin's guild for instance.)

I think with what I did (after I fix a few mistakes) should capture the essence of her character and puts it fully in D&D 5th terms. Although Im not sure of a few things, like for skills, for the ones you get from your classes, is it modify + proficiency bonus, or just modifier? Same with Saving Throw...I'm sure it's in the book, just jumping all over at the moment considering things...

We're also going to play a couple of short One Shots with 1st level pre-gens to get the proper feel of the game. If we don't like it, then we'll convert to something else entirely I suppose. I'm just getting prepared...

 

[jgsugden]

Well, it really depends. It depends on whether you as a player need consistency of attitude or consistency of action. For some people... the character is who they are-- their emotions, their needs, their desires, their attitude. How the character is "roleplayed" basically. But what they do-- the actions they take, the skills and combat styles they know and fight with-- that's all fungible.

Whereas for some other people, there is a much greater desire for their character to be able to do what it was they did before. If they had the ability to knock someone backwards 15 feet with a swing of their maul... they want to still be able to do that after conversion. ...

But I know for me personally... being someone who focuses more on who the character is rather than what he can do... I can change edition-- or heck change GAME SYSTEM-- and still have my character be my character regardless. Because how I choose to roleplay (which is mechanics-free) is what makes my PC who his or she is, not the stats on the sheet. I'm lucky in that way.

Saying that your dedication to role playing puts you above this problem is quite a different thing than dealing with the actual situation. If you're switching to or from the 4E mechanics and you are using those mechanics, it will impact what you can and can't do. A swashbuckling and plucky hero that suddenly has his capability to swash his buckles lost is no longer a swashbuckler. That impacts "who" the character is as much as it impacts "what" the character can do.

So nobody wants to exit the story line (congrats to the GM on his excellent homebrew!), and everyone is invested in their character. Rather than just creating 1st level characters and starting over, we thought if we could just convert the gist of the character, it wouldn't be such a jarring change. For my character, his race and personality defines him, not so much what he does, so I can easily convert the race, and I'll just pick a different class (wizard or sorcerer). My wife's assassin is more difficult because she would like to keep some semblance of what the character could do because that did define part of her character (the rest of us have been encouraging her to take over the assassin's guild for instance.)

If I were in this situation, I would stay in the current edition of the game, design a conclusion to the storyline to give it a fitting conclusion that won't be tarnished by a bad edition transition, and then start a new campaign with new characters. Starting a new game in the same setting with new characters is not going to cause problems - it is just the awkard stretching, cramming and reimagining that are required to take something that works fundamentally differently and cram it into a new edition.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Although Im not sure of a few things, like for skills, for the ones you get from your classes, is it modify + proficiency bonus, or just modifier? Same with Saving Throw...I'm sure it's in the book, just jumping all over at the moment considering things...

For both skills and saving throws... it's 'd20 + ability modifier' by itself if you are not proficient in the skill or save, and '1d20 + ability mod + proficiency bonus' if you are.

So using the scores you wrote above for your Monk 5 / Warlock 2 and a +3 proficiency bonus...

For saving throws:
STR save +3 (+0 mod + 3 prof bonus)
DEX save +6 (+3 mod + 3 prof bonus)
CON save +1 (+1 mod)
INT save +0 (+0 mod)
WIS save +2 (+2 mod)
CHA save +2 (+2 mod)

For the skills:
Acrobatics +6 (+3 mod + 3 prof bonus)
Arcana +3 (+0 mod + 3 prof bonus)
Deception +5 (+2 mod + 3 prof bonus)
Stealth +6 (+3 mod + 3 prof bonus)

 

[DEFCON 1]

Saying that your dedication to role playing puts you above this problem is quite a different thing than dealing with the actual situation. If you're switching to or from the 4E mechanics and you are using those mechanics, it will impact what you can and can't do. A swashbuckling and plucky hero that suddenly has his capability to swash his buckles lost is no longer a swashbuckler. That impacts "who" the character is as much as it impacts "what" the character can do.

But if you are the type of player who doesn't define his or her character by what they can or cannot do... but rather who their character is, the loss of certain abilities doesn't matter. If I'm playing a plucky swashbuckler... so long as I continue to play the character as 'plucky' and so long as I have the attitude and a few abilities of a swashbuckler (for the most part), then I don't need every mechanical ability to appear on the new sheet that was on the old one.

Now some people do need that. Absolutely. Some players feel the character cannot possibly be the same if the maneuvers they do when they fight are not the same ones they did in the previous edition. But there's also some of us that can accept a certain change in the mechanics and feel as though the character is still the same. So if I had a 'plucky swashbuckler' in 4E using the Artful Dodger Rogue build... I could remake the character perhaps using a DEX-based Fighter Battlemaster, or a Rogue Thief and still have the essence of the character intact, even if I have no way of doing a 'Sly Flourish' anymore (for example.) It's not the mechanics that are the requirement, it's how I feel playing it.

One way is no more wrong or right than the other... and your suggestion of just finishing up the game in the old system and starting a new campaign in 5E will absolutely be the right call for certain tables. But it really can go both ways.

 

[obatron]

If I were in this situation, I would stay in the current edition of the game, design a conclusion to the storyline to give it a fitting conclusion that won't be tarnished by a bad edition transition, and then start a new campaign with new characters. Starting a new game in the same setting with new characters is not going to cause problems - it is just the awkard stretching, cramming and reimagining that are required to take something that works fundamentally differently and cram it into a new edition.

I can see your point, however, 4e is not an option anymore for me, my DDI sub ended, and I'm not going to renew because it doesn't work in my browsers. It's up to the DM if he wants to start over, but the players would like to give this a try, and now after converting the shadow assassin, it doesn't seem that bad. I think this is close enough it will allow us to continue without the character concepts being jarringly different. I don't think anyone of us were married to the mechanics of 4e, having mostly a pre-4e D&D, Pathfinder, GURPS, and Savage World background. However, I'll mention your suggestion to the DM as well so he can make an informed decision.

For both skills and saving throws... it's 'd20 + ability modifier' by itself if you are not proficient in the skill or save, and '1d20 + ability mod + proficiency bonus' if you are.

So using the scores you wrote above for your Monk 5 / Warlock 2 and a +3 proficiency bonus...

For saving throws:
STR save +3 (+0 mod + 3 prof bonus)
DEX save +6 (+3 mod + 3 prof bonus)
CON save +1 (+1 mod)
INT save +0 (+0 mod)
WIS save +2 (+2 mod)
CHA save +2 (+2 mod)

For the skills:
Acrobatics +6 (+3 mod + 3 prof bonus)
Arcana +3 (+0 mod + 3 prof bonus)
Deception +5 (+2 mod + 3 prof bonus)
Stealth +6 (+3 mod + 3 prof bonus)

Excellent! Thank you very much!