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Converting Creatures from Other Campaign Settings

Cleon

Adventurer
Your note on the wicker juggernaut is fine, but it's probably smart to add that a wicker juggernaut turned into a guardian juggernaut doesn't need the extra protection.

*A wicker guardian juggernaut created by this spell does not have fire resistance (though a guardian juggernaut created from a wicker juggernaut focus retains the base construct's fire-resistance spell-like ability and needs no additional protection from fire). The construct's own burning body will quickly reduce it to ashes unless it is given fire resistance by some additional means, such as having a ring of energy resistance (fire) placed in one of its "ring finger" equipment slots.
The idea's fine, but I'd rephrase it a tad:

*A wicker juggernaut produced by create guardian does not have fire resistance. The construct's own burning body will quickly reduce it to ashes unless it is given fire resistance by some additional means, such as having a ring of energy resistance (fire) placed in one of its "ring finger" spiritual equipment slots. If the create guardian spell uses a normal wicker juggernaut as its focus, the guardian juggernaut retains the base construct's fire-resistance spell-like ability and needs no additional protection from fire.

The "recasting" paragraph is good, as is the replica equipment section.
That's fine by me.

Updating Create Guardian Spell Working Draft.

Does that finish off the spell?
Yes, assuming my tweak to the Wicker Juggernaut note is acceptable.

I'll update the Activating A Guardian Juggernaut Working Draft with the spell.
 
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Cleon

Adventurer
Okay, next is my proposed animate juggernaut spell, which is basically an improved high-level version of create guardian.

I basically imagine it as working in the same way, except it has (a) a casting time of only "1 standard action" like the animate object spell, (b) does not require the ceremonial tent (I imagine the pilot being able to switch in-and-out of "juggernaut mode" at will) and (c) maybe allows for other constructs to be used as the base construct, probably with caster level restrictions. The easiest way to do that would be to base it on the CL of the construct (i.e. an iron golem's construction is CL 16th, so maybe a 16th+ level caster who controls an iron golem can use animate juggernaut to link it to a pilot?).

Actually, that seems a little too potent - we'd be talking about an iron golem that's probably being piloted by a 16th level martial character.

Maybe base it on CR instead? Perhaps have the max CR be, say, half the CL or X plus half the CL?

A quick recap of the SRD constructs' CRs and construction CLs (except for the Homunculus which isn't relevant for our purposes):

Construct
CR
Construction CL
Golem, Greater Stone
Golem, Iron
Golem, Stone
Golem, Clay
Golem, Flesh
Shield Guardian
16
13
11
10
7
8
14th
16th
14th
11th
8th
15th

Hmm… after reflecting upon the above it makes a lot more sense making the spell's animation limits CR-based. After all, a Greater Stone Golem and a regular Stone Golem both have construction caster level 14, but one is a heck of a lot more dangerous than the other.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
OK, create guardian is looking good to me.

I think including other constructs may be a bit tricker than the rest of the animate juggernaut spell. So let's get the other stuff out of the way. I can go with points (a) and (b), including the "switch on and off" bit (though we need to work out details there). What about also requiring a construct focus instead of allowing a totem?
 

Cleon

Adventurer
OK, create guardian is looking good to me.
Good, at least that's that finished.

I think including other constructs may be a bit tricker than the rest of the animate juggernaut spell. So let's get the other stuff out of the way. I can go with points (a) and (b), including the "switch on and off" bit (though we need to work out details there). What about also requiring a construct focus instead of allowing a totem?
So are you suggesting the spell has to use a base construct and the "totem option" is unavailable? I could go along with that, but am leaning towards it allowing the temporary animation of a construct. I would even entertain it treating such totem as reusable focuses rather than the 1-use objects of the create guardian spell.

Not having a totem option would make the text length a lot more manageable though. if we add the "including other constructs" bit it might get rather wordy.

Oh, I was thinking we might want to make the duration shorter - maybe 1 minute per level?

Do you have any ideas for what spell level it should be?
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I'd be ok with cutting the duration as you suggest.

To make the spell sufficiently different from create guardian (and maybe to justify some of the benefits of this spell), I'd get rid of the "totem option" and restrict to already animate constructs. At least I'm leaning that way. I'm not sure about allowing other constructs besides the juggernauts. Or we could just work out a table of other allowed constructs or allow DM's discretion or something.

Should we finish the spell before deciding on the spell level?
 

Cleon

Adventurer
I'd be ok with cutting the duration as you suggest.
So 1 minute per level is OK by you?

To make the spell sufficiently different from create guardian (and maybe to justify some of the benefits of this spell), I'd get rid of the "totem option" and restrict to already animate constructs. At least I'm leaning that way. I'm not sure about allowing other constructs besides the juggernauts. Or we could just work out a table of other allowed constructs or allow DM's discretion or something.
I'm fine with that.

I'd lean towards the "table of allowed constructs with others being at DM's discretion" option.

Furthermore, I suggest a note warning the DM that this spell is potentially very campaign-disruptive so they may want to restrict its availability to PCs. We could suggest the possibility that it's a "lost secret of the ancients" that only survives in rare construct-controlling magic items.

Should we finish the spell before deciding on the spell level?
No objections to that.

Since we've hammered out the basic idea of the spell, I suggest we change the name to, say, pilot juggernaut since that's what it does now.

I guess it's time to start roughing out a Working Draft…
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Pilot Juggernaut Spell Working Draft

Pilot Juggernaut
Transmutation
Level: Juggernaut 6, Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: full-round action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Targets: One pilot and one construct
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell bonds a willing intelligent being's consciousness to a construct, temporarily transforming the construct into a guardian juggernaut. Only constructs under the caster's complete control can be affected. The pilot must be a willing intelligent being chosen by the spellcaster (who may be the caster themself). The type of construct that can be piloted is based on your caster level, as shown on the table below.

Caster Level
No level requirement
9th or higher
9th or higher
11th or higher
Juggernaut Type
wooden juggernaut
winged juggernaut
wicker juggernaut
stone juggernaut

At the DM's discretion, pilot juggernaut can be used to pilot other constructs. The caster level required to pilot a construct is normally either the construct's construction CL or the result of doubling the construct's Challenge Rating and subtracting three, whichever is higher. For example, a clay golem (CL 11th, CR 10) requires a caster level 17th pilot juggernaut (twice its CR 10 minus 3) while a shield guardian (CL 15th, CR 8) requires a caster level 15th pilot juggernaut (its CL). If the construct has some unusual traits that make it more or less effective as a piloted juggernaut the DM may want to increase or lower the required CL to compensate for its change in effectiveness.

You may create less powerful juggernauts than your level would allow if you choose. The juggernaut is under the control of the pilot, not the spell's caster, if these roles belong to separate creatures.

The pilot must ritually don a control focus during the casting time of the pilot juggernaut spell to establish a mystic link with the construct. This focus item usually takes the form of a mask shaped like the face of the construct. During the casting process, the caster must stay within range of all the components and targets of the pilot juggernaut spell, which includes the pilot.

After casting is completed, the totem animates as a guardian juggernaut of the appropriate type under control of the pilot. The juggernaut is able to use any magical equipment in its spiritual equipment slots at the direction of the pilot provided the pilot wields a replica equipment version of it (see the guardian juggernaut template for details).

The pilot and the spellcaster can freely access the juggernaut's spiritual equipment slots to insert and remove magical items. They can install equipment before the pilot juggernaut spell is cast or while the juggernaut is animated, and are also able to change equipment by replacing items in an equipment slot.

A guardian juggernaut created by this spell can be piloted until it is destroyed or the spell's duration runs out. The pilot can direct the juggernaut as long as the juggernaut is on the same plane and the pilot wears the control focus. If the pilot is incapacitated or killed the juggernaut becomes inactive, since it only moves when its pilot acts. The juggernaut also becomes inactive if the pilot takes off the control focus since this breaks the pilot's connection with the juggernaut. The pilot cannot resume control by putting the control focus back on. Recasting pilot juggernaut guardian will "reset" the remaining duration of the spell to 1 minute per level and also allows the caster to reassign the pilot – either appointing an entirely new pilot or reconnecting a pilot who's connection to the juggernaut was broken.

A pilot juggernaut spell can’t be defeated by dispel magic or dismissed by its caster. It can be disjoined by mage's disjunction or broken by break enchantment* if such spells are cast on either the pilot or the juggernaut. Break enchantment automatically breaks a pilot juggernaut spell from the same spellcaster. *The pilot juggernaut spell is an exception to the rule that break enchantment only works against spells of 5th level or lower.

When the pilot juggernaut spell expires the guardian juggernaut reverts back to being whatever base construct it was created from.

At the DM's option, this spell may be used to pilot other varieties of construct such as a shield guardian or clay golem. The minimum caster level required to cast pilot juggernaut on such constructs is typically twice the Challenge Rating of the construct (i.e. CL 16th to operate a CR 8 Shield Guardian as a piloted juggernaut).

Focus: A finely-crafted item of clothing (usually a mask) that resembles the base construct. It costs 1,000 gp.

Focus: The construct to be piloted.

Replica Equipment: These are wooden copies of items used with the juggernaut's spiritual equipment ability, see the create guardian spell for more information.
 
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freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Let's go with full-round casting time, close range, and the 1 min/level duration as you suggest. This looks pretty good. Let's work out the rest before deciding on the spell level.

For the range, we can pull the text from create guardian: During the casting process, the caster must stay within range of all the components and targets of the pilot juggernaut spell. Same for the replica equipment section. What else does it need?

Given how this spell is shaping up, should we drop the "use juggernauts as a focus" aspect of the create guardian spell?
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Let's go with full-round casting time, close range, and the 1 min/level duration as you suggest. This looks pretty good.
Well I kind of liked Medium range for it. My thinking was close range is fine for the long-duration create guardian because the juggernaut can be created far from a battlefield and has plenty of time to march to it. Close range might leave the pilot way too exposed for the shorter duration of pilot juggernaut.

I might even go for Long range.

Updating Pilot Juggernaut Spell Working Draft.

Let's work out the rest before deciding on the spell level.
Speaking of level, I'm wondering whether we should inventing a "Juggernaut Domain" that includes the create guardian and pilot juggernaut spell rather than having them be standard Cleric spells. It's OK making them Sorcerer/Wizard spells since those are easier to restrict access to, but if any cleric can prepare these spells once they know of them it seems a tad unbalancing. All the martial characters in a party might start adventuring in Juggernaut bodies!

For the range, we can pull the text from create guardian: During the casting process, the caster must stay within range of all the components and targets of the pilot juggernaut spell. Same for the replica equipment section. What else does it need?
Well I guess we want to figure out CL minimums for the various Juggernaut variants and decide what (if any) components the spell requires and their details & cost.

There's a lot of the create guardian spell we can repurpose for pilot juggernaut.

By the way, I think that pilot juggernaut ought to allow the spellcaster to select themselves as the pilot, not just someone else. Do you approve?

Given how this spell is shaping up, should we drop the "use juggernauts as a focus" aspect of the create guardian spell?
Hmm… which of us wanted to have "use juggernaut as a focus" in the spell again? It was so long ago I can't remember.

In principle I'm fine with the idea. It'll make it closer to the original version and make the spell easier to follow, plus cut down on the word count.

Once I finish work today I might modify the Create Guardian Spell Working Draft to see what that would look like.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Revised Create Guardian Spell

Once I finish work today I might modify the Create Guardian Spell Working Draft to see what that would look like.
Well it's the day after but better late than never…




Create Guardian
Transmutation
Level: Clr 4 [or Juggernaut 4?]
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets: One pilot and one totem
Duration: 24 hours
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell temporarily transforms a giant totem into a guardian juggernaut with the consciousness of a pilot. The pilot must be a willing intelligent being who is either a blood relative of the spellcaster or someone who has been ritually adopted into the spellcaster's clan. The type of juggernaut you can animate is based on your caster level, as shown on the table below.

Caster Level
No level requirement
9th or higher
9th or higher
11th or higher
Juggernaut Type
wooden juggernaut
winged juggernaut
wicker juggernaut*
stone juggernaut

*A wicker juggernaut produced by create guardian does not have fire resistance. The construct's own burning body will quickly reduce it to ashes unless it is given fire resistance by some additional means, such as having a ring of energy resistance (fire) placed in one of its "ring finger" spiritual equipment slots.

A create guardian spell requires considerable preparation (see components for additional details). The totem must be constructed in advance, which takes months of labour. A ceremonial tent must be erected. Wooden replicas of any magical items the juggernaut is intended to use are carved and the pilot must place them in the spiritual equipment slots of the totem.

The spellcaster can then start casting create guardian. The pilot ritually adorns themselves with the magical items for the juggernaut. They then remove the wooden replicas from the totem's spiritual equipment slots and replace them with the real items. The pilot, now adorned with the replica equipment, then enters the ceremonial tent and the priest completes the spellcasting by tracing a 10 foot diameter circle – the circle of control – around the pilot inside the tent. During the casting process, the caster must stay within range of all the components and targets of the create guardian spell.

After casting is completed, the totem animates as a guardian juggernaut of the appropriate type under control of the pilot. The juggernaut is able to use any magical equipment in its spiritual equipment slots at the direction of the pilot.

A guardian juggernaut created by this spell remains animated until it is destroyed or the spell's duration runs out. The pilot can direct the juggernaut as long as the juggernaut is on the same plane and the pilot remains within the control tent. If the pilot is incapacitated or killed the juggernaut continues to be animated but becomes inactive, since it only moves when its pilot acts. The juggernaut also becomes inactive if the pilot leaves the circle of control within the tent since this breaks the pilot's connection with the juggernaut. The pilot cannot resume control by reentering the circle of control. Recasting create guardian will "reset" the remaining duration of the spell to 24 hours and also allows the caster to reassign the pilot – either appointing an entirely new pilot or reconnecting a pilot who's connection to the juggernaut was broken.

Material Component: A totem built in the form of a guardian juggernaut. The construction cost is 500 gp for a wooden or wicker juggernaut's totem, 1,000 gp for a stone or winged juggernaut's totem. The totem must be hand built by members of the caster's clan, a process that takes 3 months. If anyone who is not a member of the caster's clan works on the totem it cannot be animated by a create guardian spell. A clan may only have one totem prepared at a time. If they craft another totem when another totem is already prepared the old totem becomes ineligible for the create guardian spell once the new totem is finished.

Unlike normal material components, the totem is not destroyed when the create guardian spell is cast. When the spell's 24 hour duration expires the totem remains in existence but can no longer be animated by a create guardian spell. Expired totems are traditionally set up for display by the clans that produced them.

Focus: A ceremonial tent 10 feet across. Made out of fine fabrics it costs 500 gp.

Replica Equipment: These are wooden copies of items used with the juggernaut's spiritual equipment ability (see the guardian juggernaut template for details). These items must be carved out of wood by the pilot or a clan relative of theirs, a process that takes 1 day per replica item but does not require any Skill checks (the degree of workmanship of the replica being irrelevant to the spiritual connection). A wooden replica weighs the same as the items it's a copy of and has a negligible cost. Replica equipment items are effectively focus components for the create guardian spell, the spell does not consume them and the replicas can be reused.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Medium range is ok by me, sure.

I like the domain idea. We could go for a somewhat more general construct domain, since I don't think an official one exists (I did find someone's homebrew).

I'm ok with the caster piloting the juggernaut.

Using an actual juggernaut as a focus for create guardian was probably my idea. But I like this version. It's a bit tighter, and the pilot juggernaut spell fills that void.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Medium range is ok by me, sure.
Updating Pilot Juggernaut Spell Working Draft.

I like the domain idea. We could go for a somewhat more general construct domain, since I don't think an official one exists (I did find someone's homebrew).
I was thinking of something a little narrower than that, perhaps even a cultural-specific "Knorr Rituals" domain that included some of the other rituals in Jakandor - Island of War.

We could do that and a generic "Juggernaut" domain I guess.

Domain's don't take up much space, and we've already used plenty! :cool:


I'm ok with the caster piloting the juggernaut.
Me too. How about this revision:

This spell bonds a willing intelligent being's consciousness to a construct, temporarily transforming the construct into a guardian juggernaut. Only constructs under the caster's complete control can be affected. The pilot must be a willing intelligent being chosen by the spellcaster (who may be the caster themself). The type of construct that can be piloted is based on your caster level, as shown on the table below.

* * *

You may create less powerful juggernauts than your level would allow if you choose. The juggernaut is under the control of the pilot, not the spell's caster, if these roles belong to separate creatures. [Additional constructs at DM's option.]

Using an actual juggernaut as a focus for create guardian was probably my idea. But I like this version. It's a bit tighter, and the pilot juggernaut spell fills that void.
Shall I update the create guardian in the Activating A Guardian Juggernaut Working Draft then?
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Well, let's finish the spell and then work out the domain. You might have to send me some of those other rituals.

Those revisions regarding the caster as pilot look good. I think allowing additional constructs for pilot juggernaut but not create guardian probably makes sense.

Yes, let's get it all updated and look at it. Can we crib the spiritual equipment stuff from create guardian for pilot juggernaut?
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Well, let's finish the spell and then work out the domain. You might have to send me some of those other rituals.
If I remember correctly there are quite a few of them and a fair few are general community-oriented things.

Let me pull out Island of War.

The rituals are:

Accept Burden (Enchantment/Charm)
Blessed Hunt (Enchantment/Charm)
Bond of Trust (Enchantment/Charm)
Cry of the Clan (Alteration)
Good Will (Enchantment/Charm)
Know Condition (Divination)
Lend Health (Necromancy)
Lift Unseen Veil (Divination)
Mark Trap or Trail (Alteration)
Nourishment (Alteration)
Prayer for the Dead (Abjuration)
Purify Spirit (Enchantment/Charm)
Wakefulness (Enchantment/Charm)

What most of them do is fairly obvious from the name. Purify Spirit is for personal improvement not exorcism, by the way.

There are also a bunch of new spells for the Knorr:

CLERIC:
1st level: create talisman, detect holy presence
2nd level: ghost shirt
3rd level: eulogy, undead taboo
4th level: adoption, bind relic, create guardian, declare enemy, disinherit
5th level: create clan

WIZARD:
1st level: create talisman, master weapon

Most of those don't look terribly relevant for a "juggernaut domain", they're more a "community domain" matter.

Those revisions regarding the caster as pilot look good. I think allowing additional constructs for pilot juggernaut but not create guardian probably makes sense.
Yes. I think some fairly straightforward CL to CR of construct rule might do for the options, with a "At the DM's discretion" note.

Yes, let's get it all updated and look at it.
Updating Activating A Guardian Juggernaut Working Draft.

Updating Pilot Juggernaut Spell Working Draft.

Can we crib the spiritual equipment stuff from create guardian for pilot juggernaut?
That's what I was planning on doing!

Although a fair chunk can just be "like the create guardian spell."
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Well, if we're copying from the equipment, does that just leave CL for the different constructs? I'd suggest using the same CLs for the juggernauts as in create guardian.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Well, if we're copying from the equipment, does that just leave CL for the different constructs? I'd suggest using the same CLs for the juggernauts as in create guardian.
Upon reflection, the spiritual equipment will have a number of differences - for a start, the spell only has a 1 round casting time so the pilot won't have the create guardian's hour casting time to install the equipment.

Some rephrasing might be in order.

How about this:

You may create less powerful juggernauts than your level would allow if you choose. The juggernaut is under the control of the pilot, not the spell's caster, if these roles belong to separate creatures.

The pilot must ritually don a control focus during the casting time of the pilot juggernaut spell to establish a mystic link with the construct. This focus item usually takes the form of a mask shaped like the face of the construct. During the casting process, the caster must stay within range of all the components and targets of the pilot juggernaut spell, which includes the pilot.

After casting is completed, the totem animates as a guardian juggernaut of the appropriate type under control of the pilot. The juggernaut is able to use any magical equipment in its spiritual equipment slots at the direction of the pilot provided the pilot wields a replica equipment version of it (see the guardian juggernaut template for details).

The pilot and the spellcaster can freely access the juggernaut's spiritual equipment slots to insert and remove magical items. They can install equipment before the pilot juggernaut spell is cast or while the juggernaut is animated, and are also able to change equipment by replacing items in an equipment slot.

A guardian juggernaut created by this spell can be piloted until it is destroyed or the spell's duration runs out. The pilot can direct the juggernaut as long as the juggernaut is on the same plane and the pilot wears the control focus. If the pilot is incapacitated or killed the juggernaut becomes inactive, since it only moves when its pilot acts. The juggernaut also becomes inactive if the pilot takes off the control focus since this breaks the pilot's connection with the juggernaut. The pilot cannot resume control by putting the control focus back on. Recasting pilot juggernaut guardian will "reset" the remaining duration of the spell to 1 minute per level and also allows the caster to reassign the pilot – either appointing an entirely new pilot or reconnecting a pilot who's connection to the juggernaut was broken.

A pilot juggernaut spell can’t be defeated by dispel magic or dismissed by its caster. It can be disjoined by mage's disjunction or broken by break enchantment* if such spells are cast on either the pilot or the juggernaut. Break enchantment automatically breaks a pilot juggernaut spell from the same spellcaster. *The pilot juggernaut spell is an exception to the rule that break enchantment only works against spells of 5th level or lower.

When the pilot juggernaut spell expires the guardian juggernaut reverts back to being whatever base construct it was created from.

At the DM's option, this spell may be used to pilot other varieties of construct such as a shield guardian or clay golem. The minimum caster level required to cast pilot juggernaut on such constructs is typically twice the Challenge Rating of the construct (i.e. CL 16th to operate a CR 8 Shield Guardian as a piloted juggernaut).

Material Component: [Expensive incenses or body paints?]

Focus: A finely-crafted item of clothing (usually a mask) that resembles the base construct. It costs ??? gp.

Replica Equipment: These are wooden copies of items used with the juggernaut's spiritual equipment ability, see the create guardian spell for more information.

Well, if we're copying from the equipment, does that just leave CL for the different constructs? I'd suggest using the same CLs for the juggernauts as in create guardian.
Works for me.

Updating Pilot Juggernaut Spell Working Draft.
 
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freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I can go with your proposed equipment text.

I like the mask focus, but surely the base juggernaut should also be a focus.

I guess knowing the spell level would be helpful in figuring out costs. Create Guardian is Clr (or maybe domain?) 4, and this feels a bit stronger. Maybe Domain (or Clr) 6, Sor/Wiz 7? The main advantage is the reduced casting time and perhaps reduced fussiness about conditions when the spell works. I'm not sure how much of a bonus needing a functioning construct is --- that's kind of expensive in and of itself. But we were probably going to allow other construct types, which adds flexibility. Is all that worth a couple of spell levels? I have a much better feel for CR than this.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
I can go with your proposed equipment text.
Updating Pilot Juggernaut Spell Working Draft.

I like the mask focus, but surely the base juggernaut should also be a focus.
Yes, hence the "Focus: A mask? The construct?" in the previous draft.

I'll resolve that by adding the line "Focus: The construct to be piloted." to the Working Draft.

I guess knowing the spell level would be helpful in figuring out costs. Create Guardian is Clr (or maybe domain?) 4, and this feels a bit stronger. Maybe Domain (or Clr) 6, Sor/Wiz 7? The main advantage is the reduced casting time and perhaps reduced fussiness about conditions when the spell works. I'm not sure how much of a bonus needing a functioning construct is --- that's kind of expensive in and of itself. But we were probably going to allow other construct types, which adds flexibility. Is all that worth a couple of spell levels? I have a much better feel for CR than this.
I'm leaning towards Domain 4 for create guardian and Domain 6, Sor/Wiz 7 for pilot juggernaut.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I will agree to all of that.

Did we want to add other construct types to the table or just a note that require CL is up to DM judgement?
 

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