Converting Creatures from Other Campaign Settings

[Cleon]

OK, I didn't get from your previous description that you wanted to add the construct's (Str-10) to the base creature's Str before addding the size modifier. Or did you want to add (Str-10-size modifier) from the construct?

Okay, basically I'm suggesting we remove the base creature's size modifier for Strength and substitute the base construct's size modifier to Strength.

If we assume the base construct is Huge size, this means the Juggernaut has "base creature's strength plus X minus base creature's size modifier to strength", where X includes the +16 size modifier for being Huge plus an additional modifier for the base type of Juggernaut - Wood, Stone, et cetera.

So, if you have a Small base creature (-4 size modifier to Strength) piloting a Huge base construct (+16 size modifier to Strength), the resulting juggernaut would have the base creature's strength and a +20 size adjustment plus an additional tweak due to material (so a Stone Juggernaut might have, say, +6 on top of that and a Wicker Juggernaut could have -4).

Contrariwise, a Large base creature (+8 size modifier to Strength) piloting the same Huge construct (+16 size modifier) would have a +8 overall size adjustment to Strength.

I'm thinking that after explaining this in the Ability line we'd include a "Juggernaut Ability Table" similar to the one we used for the Mystaran Gargantua, for ease of reference.

For example, if a typical Wooden Juggernaut grants a +18 Strength bonus to Medium-sized pilot, the table might look something like:

Juggernaut Strength Modifier Table

Base Creature

[TABLE="width: 80"] [TR] [TD]Size

Fine[+28]

Diminutive[+26]

Tiny[+24]

Small[+20]

Medium[+16]

Large[+8]

[TD="align: center"] Type of Juggernaut
[/TD]

[/TD] [TD][TABLE="width: 300"] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Stone[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Wicker[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Winged[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Wooden[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Str +X[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +X[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +X[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +30[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Str +X[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +X[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +X[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +28[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Str +X[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +X[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +X[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +26[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Str +X[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +X[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +X[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +22[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Str +X[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +X[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +X[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +18[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Str +X[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +X[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +X[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +10[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Hmm... upon reflection I'm not sure about the idea of halfling-powered Juggernauts having higher strengths than human-powered ones due to the size differential.

How would it work if a base creature with a size penalty didn't apply it? (e.g. if it was ""base creature's strength plus X minus base creature's size bonus to strength")

Let's see, that would be something like...

Juggernaut Size Modifier Table

Base Creature

[TABLE="width: 80"] [TR] [TD]Size

Fine[n/a]

Diminutive[n/a]

Tiny[n/a]

Small[n/a]

Medium[+0]

Large[+8]

Huge[+16]

Gargantuan[+24]

Colossal[+32]

[TD="align: center"] Juggernaut Size
[/TD]

[/TD] [TD][TABLE="width: 400"] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Medium[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Large[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Huge[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Gargantuan[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Colossal[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Str +0[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +8[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +16[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +24[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +32[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Str +0[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +8[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +16[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +24[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +32[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Str +0[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +8[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +16[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +24[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +32[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Str +0[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +8[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +16[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +24[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +32[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +8[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +16[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +24[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +32[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +8[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +16[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +24[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +8[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +16[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +8[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Nah, don't like that. I prefer the "both bonus and penalty" model, which in generic form would be something like:

Juggernaut Size Modifier Table

Base Creature

[TABLE="width: 80"] [TR] [TD]Size

Fine[-12]

Diminutive[-10]

Tiny[-8]

Small[-4]

Medium[+0]

Large[+8]

Huge[+16]

Gargantuan[+24]

Colossal[+32]

[TD="align: center"] Juggernaut Size*
[/TD]

[/TD] [TD][TABLE="width: 400"] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Medium[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Large[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Huge[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Gargantuan[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Colossal[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Str +12[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +20[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +28[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +36[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +44[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Str +10[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +18[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +26[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +34[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +42[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Str +8[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +16[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +24[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +32[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +40[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Str +4[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +12[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +20[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +28[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +36[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +8[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +16[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +24[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +32[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +8[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +16[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +24[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +8[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +16[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +8[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] * Add +X for Stone, +Y for Wood or Winged, +Z for Wicker[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Yeah, that kind of approach works for me.

 

[freyar]

I think I can go for that last table, as long as the +X, +Y, and +Z are basically the base construct's Str score - 10 or 11.

 

[Cleon]

I think I can go for that last table, as long as the +X, +Y, and +Z are basically the base construct's Str score - 10 or 11.

That's what I had in mind, except the adjustment would be -26 or -27 once we allow for the Huge size of the standard juggernaut.

Let's try nailing it down then.

Abilities
A guardian juggernaut's Strength equals the base creature's Str plus the amount given in the Juggernaut Strength Table. Its Dexterity equals the base creature's Dex plus a modifier for the base construct (-4 for stone, -2 for wooden and wicker, or +0 for winged). A guardian juggernaut has no Constitution score, being a construct. A guardian juggernaut has the Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma of the base creature.

Juggernaut Strength Table
[TABLE="class: cms_table"] [TR] [TD]Base Creature[/TD] [TD="align: center"]
Juggernaut Size
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][TABLE="class: cms_table, width: 80"] [TR] [TD]Size[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Fine[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Diminutive[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Tiny[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Small[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Medium[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Large[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Huge[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Gargantuan[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Colossal[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [TD][TABLE="class: cms_table, width: 400"] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Medium[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Large[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Huge**[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Gargantuan[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Colossal[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Str +12[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +20[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +28[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +36[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +44[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Str +10[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +18[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +26[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +34[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +42[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Str +8[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +16[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +24[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +32[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +40[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Str +4[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +12[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +20[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +28[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +36[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +8[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +16[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +24[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +32[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +8[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +16[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +24[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +8[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +16[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +8[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] * To use this table, cross-reference the base creature's size with the juggernaut's size then add a modifier for the base construct (+X for Stone, +Y for Wood or Winged, +Z for Wicker).
** standard juggernauts are Huge sized so use this column.
[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]
Non-Standard Base Constructs: If you wish to use a different base construct from the four standard types, you can determine its ability adjustments as follows.

The Juggernaut Strength Table modifier equals the Strength racial bonus the base construct would have if it were Medium size. Use the Changes to Statistics by Size table in the SRD or Monster Manual to determine what this value would be.

The juggernaut's Dexterity modifier equals the base construct's racial penalty to Dex, if any. A guardian juggernaut can not have a higher Dex than the base creature, so if the base construct has a racial bonus to Dex it does not apply.

Example: An iron golem is Large, with Str 33 and Dex 9. A Medium iron golem would have Str 25, so its Juggernaut Strength Table modifier is +14. The iron golem's Dex 9 gives it a juggernaut Dexterity modifier of -2.

 

[freyar]

That basically works, but I'm not sure it's clear from the table that you add both the amount in the table and the amount in the footnote. I think maybe the way to do it would be to list the "footnote" modifiers in the Abilities text (like you do for Dex) and then say "with a further adjustment for size as given in the table below." Then I'd call the table "Juggernaut Strength Adjustment for Size" or something, just so it doesn't look like the value in the table is the final strength.

 

[Cleon]

That basically works, but I'm not sure it's clear from the table that you add both the amount in the table and the amount in the footnote. I think maybe the way to do it would be to list the "footnote" modifiers in the Abilities text (like you do for Dex) and then say "with a further adjustment for size as given in the table below." Then I'd call the table "Juggernaut Strength Adjustment for Size" or something, just so it doesn't look like the value in the table is the final strength.

Yeah, that might work better.

How's this:

Abilities
A guardian juggernaut uses the base creature's ability scores plus the following adjustments. Its Strength increases by a modifier for the base construct (+X for stone, +Y for winged or wooden, +Z for wicker) plus a size bonus as given in the Juggernaut Size Adjustment Table (+16 for a Huge juggernaut piloted by a Medium creature). Its Dexterity decreases by a modifier for the base construct (-4 for stone, -2 for wooden and wicker, or +0 for winged). A guardian juggernaut has no Constitution score, being a construct. A guardian juggernaut has the Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma of the base creature.

Juggernaut Size Adjustment Table*
[TABLE="class: cms_table_cms_table"] [TR] [TD]Creature[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Construct Size
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][TABLE="class: cms_table_cms_table, width: 80"] [TR] [TD]Size[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Fine[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Diminutive[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Tiny[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Small[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Medium[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Large[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Huge[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Gargantuan[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [TD][TABLE="class: cms_table_cms_table, width: 400"] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Medium[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Large[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Huge**[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Gargantuan[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Colossal[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Str +12[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +20[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +28[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +36[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +44[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Str +10[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +18[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +26[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +34[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +42[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Str +8[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +16[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +24[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +32[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +40[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Str +4[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +12[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +20[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +28[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +36[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +8[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +16[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +24[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +32[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +8[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +16[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +24[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +8[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +16[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]n/a[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Str +8[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] * To use this table, cross-reference the base creature's size on the left with the base construct's size on the top. The result is the guardian juggernaut's size bonus to Strength.
** standard juggernauts are Huge sized so use this column.[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Non-Standard Base Constructs: If you wish to use a different base construct from the four standard types, you can determine its ability adjustments as follows.

The Juggernaut Strength Table modifier equals the Strength racial bonus the base construct would have if it were Medium size. Use the Changes to Statistics by Size table in the SRD or Monster Manual to determine what this value would be.

The juggernaut's Dexterity modifier equals the base construct's racial penalty to Dex, if any. A guardian juggernaut can not have a higher Dex than the base creature, so if the base construct has a racial bonus to Dex it does not apply.

Example: An iron golem is Large, with Str 33 and Dex 9. A Medium iron golem would have Str 25, so its Juggernaut Strength Table modifier is +14. The iron golem's Dex 9 gives it a juggernaut Dexterity modifier of -2.

 

[freyar]

That works, but I think the Non-Standard Base Constructs text for Str needs to be modified to the following:

"The juggernaut;s Strength modifier equals the Strength racial bonus the base construct would have if it were Medium size. Use the Changes to Statistics by Size table in the SRD or Monster Manual to determine what this value would be."

 

[Cleon]

That works, but I think the Non-Standard Base Constructs text for Str needs to be modified to the following:

"The juggernaut;s Strength modifier equals the Strength racial bonus the base construct would have if it were Medium size. Use the Changes to Statistics by Size table in the SRD or Monster Manual to determine what this value would be."

I'll agree to that provided the beginning's changed to "The juggernaut's Strength modifier".

Updating the Guardian Juggernaut Working Draft.

Looks like it's the Special Attacks next.

Shall we figure out the "Equipment Slots" aspect first, since that's likely to be the most complex?

 

[freyar]

Haha, oops!

Yes, let's look at that. I think we'll have to include something about it in the create guardian spell, too. Anyway, let's start with armor, since I think that's the easiest: "A guardian juggernaut receives all the benefits of mundane or magical armor placed in the interior equipment cavity, provided the helmsman wears a wooden replica of that armor." Does that cover it?

 

[Cleon]

Haha, oops!

Yes, let's look at that. I think we'll have to include something about it in the create guardian spell, too. Anyway, let's start with armor, since I think that's the easiest: "A guardian juggernaut receives all the benefits of mundane or magical armor placed in the interior equipment cavity, provided the helmsman wears a wooden replica of that armor." Does that cover it?

I don't think we need to specify specific rules for each type of equipment, just say the juggernaut acts as if it was equipped with the item(s) in its slots. It'll need to explain what items can be equipped, how the pilot installs them, and the cost of the "replica items".

 

[freyar]

I'm not clear that weapons work that way. It looks to me like an equipped weapon adds the weapon's damage to the construct's slam (and I'm not sure how B/P/S is supposed to work). It's not like the juggernaut grows a copy of the weapon from its hand or something, at least not the way I read it.