Converting Creatures from Other Campaign Settings

[freyar]

To simplify the feats line, how about

Feats: A guardian juggernaut has the feats of the base creature but does not gain any feats from the base construct's Hit Dice. It does gain any bonus feats possessed by the base construct.

 

[Cleon]

To simplify the feats line, how about

Feats: A guardian juggernaut has the feats of the base creature but does not gain any feats from the base construct's Hit Dice. It does gain any bonus feats possessed by the base construct.

That's better!

Updating the Guardian Juggernaut Working Draft.

 

[freyar]

Looks good. Environment, org, alignment look right. Advancement seems to be a special case. Maybe that advanced base constructs and base creatures can be used, but generally there is no advancement while the pilot is "driving" the juggernaut? Do we need a note on how to grant XP to PCs who are made into juggernauts?

 

[Cleon]

Looks good. Environment, org, alignment look right. Advancement seems to be a special case. Maybe that advanced base constructs and base creatures can be used, but generally there is no advancement while the pilot is "driving" the juggernaut? Do we need a note on how to grant XP to PCs who are made into juggernauts?

Yes, I think we ought to add something.

Say we have party of 5th-level characters piloting CR 10 Juggernauts. If they fight a CR 10 opponent and got the XP of a CR 10 vs. CR 10 encounter that'd be 3,000 XP, which is a lot of XP for the CR 5 pilots. If they used their own CR 5 instead of the Juggernaut's they'd get 9,000 XP!

It'd probably be "fairer" if the XP was adjusted to the pilots level, so they earned the 1,500 XP of a CR 5 vs. CR 5 encounter.

'Course that doesn't start to address the problem that it's more likely to be a mixed party, with one pilot in the juggernaut plus the rest of the PCs fighting normally at their regular CR.

 

[Cleon]

Oh, and we still haven't put in the X, Y or Z numbers for the Guardian Juggernaut's Strength modifiers.

Maybe +10 for Stone, +6 for Winged or Wooden and +2 for Wicker?

 

[freyar]

Yes, I'm really not sure what to do about the pilot. It would be easier if the pilot became a permanent juggernaut --- just use the LA ---, but that's not how these really work. We're going to have to think about this.

Shouldn't the Str (and Dex for that matter) modifiers depend on the base constructs we write later?

 

[Cleon]

Yes, I'm really not sure what to do about the pilot. It would be easier if the pilot became a permanent juggernaut --- just use the LA ---, but that's not how these really work. We're going to have to think about this.

It's certainly a tricky issue. It seems fairer to arrange things so the pilot gets roughly the same XPs as his or her non-juggernaut piloting companions get.

Shouldn't the Str (and Dex for that matter) modifiers depend on the base constructs we write later?

Yes they do. We can leave it for later if you prefer.

 

[freyar]

Hmmm. What if we subtract the juggernaut's LA from the CR of the monsters that the juggernaut fights? Then combine that with the other opponents? Seem too fiddly or unfair?

 

[Cleon]

Hmmm. What if we subtract the juggernaut's LA from the CR of the monsters that the juggernaut fights? Then combine that with the other opponents? Seem too fiddly or unfair?

Hmm... isn't that mechanically the same as the approach I proposed earlier that used a comparison of the CRs of the juggernaut and the pilot?

e.g. my proposal was along the lines of if a CR 11 Juggernaut fights a CR 10 opponent and its pilot happens to be CR 5 they earn XP as if they fought a CR 4 opponent.

In the above example, you could consider the Juggernaut as having a LA of +6 (CR 5 +6 = CR 11), so the CR 10 opponent grants XPs as if it were a CR 4 enemy (CR 10 -6 = CR 4).

However, the problem with Level Adjustment is that LA is in addition to a creature's levels/hit dice, so if the base construct is advanced in HD it will throw the numbers off. e.g. a wooden juggernaut would have LA +X regardless of whether it has 8 HD or 18 HD.

 

[freyar]

Ughh, yes, I guess that's essentially the same. I don't think I quite followed your proposal earlier. Well, I think it's going to be fiddly and weird however we do it, so we can just take your suggestion.

Underbar: Pilot Advancement
When determining the XP earned by the pilot, determine an effective CR for each opponent the juggernaut fights. First, subtract the juggernaut's opponent's CR from the juggernaut's CR, then the effective CR is the sum of that difference and the pilot's CR. Then use the opponent's effective CR to determine the XP earned by a character of the pilot's level.