Converting monsters from Dragon magazine (Part Two)

[Cleon]

Let's go with Str 15, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 4, Wis 12, Cha 9 and Dex poison, then. Dex 13 gives us a few more feat options.

That's true. Opens up the Dodge tree, among others.

OK, we seem to be getting somewhere. Good point about the Feat prereqs. So, we're agreed on Str 15, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 4, Wis 12, Cha 9.

As for the poison, I'm still against plain Dex damage. The description says it only causes slowness as its initial effect, if it does Dex it (a) has the potential of causing paralysis and (b) has a lot of fiddly knock-on effects to its target's stats. Some status effect seems both simpler and truer to the original to me.

What about its other stats. I'm seeing something like the following:

Hit Dice: 5d12+10 (37 hp)
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), fly 60 ft. (poor) [Faster on land, fly = Wyvern]
Armor Class: 17 (+1 Dex, +6 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+7
Attacks: Sting +7 melee (1d4+2 poison) or bite +7 melee (1d10+2)
Full Attack: Sting +7 melee (1d4+2 poison) and bite +5 melee (1d10+2)
Special Attacks: Poison, improved grab [Like a Wyvern]
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., immunity to sleep and paralysis, low-light vision, scent [Like a Wyvern]
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +5, Wil +5
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 4, Wis 12, Cha 9
Skills: Hide +9, Listen +9, Move Silently +9, Spot +9, Survival +9
[Like a Wyvern with Survival as the extra skill from its higher Int, all maxed out and not including any feats or racial bonuses it may have]
Feats: Two, plus Multiattack (B) [Multiattack as a bonus like Wyvern]
Environment: Warm hills [Like a Wyvern]
Treasure: Standard [Like a Wyvern]

I'm thinking one of its feats should be Alertness, since both the Wyvern and Pseudodragon have it, and probably Ability Focus (poison) for the other.

As for Advancement, Wyverns have an odd advancement, being 7HD (Large); 8-10 HD (Huge); 11-21 HD (Gargantuan) so I'm thinking something similar for the Bloodstinger, how about:

Advancement 6-7 HD (Large); 8-15 HD (Huge)

 

[Shade]

I'm fine with the revised stats, except somewhere along the way I screwed up and indavertently improved Int to 4, when these are clearly animal intelligence. I've corrected that to 2.

Added to Homebrews.

I also retained the wyvern's full attack routine, and would like the advancement to follow the wyvern's up to Gargantuan. I'm open to debate, though.

Some things we might borrow from the pseudodragon...

• Add "and temperate forests" to the Environment line.
• Blindsense
• Racial bonus on Hide checks
• Initial damage on poison could be sleep

We don't have to use any of that, just some food for thought.

 

[Leopold]

Needs to have worse flying or slower flying. This criter barely flies this thing is T-Rex with Wings (that's my mental picture I'm running with it).

What about Swallow Whole for a feat or is it too small to bother?

 

[demiurge1138]

Swallow Whole is not a feat in the SRD--it's opened up as a feat option in the Draconomicon, but we can't use that. As a special ability... this thing is Medium. So it could only swallow Tiny or smaller creatures, and unless you hate your player's familiars... not worth it.

I don't think the talons and wings should be included in the attacks line. I like just the bite and the sting. The poison also explicitly causes slowness, not sleep--if it caused sleep, there wouldn't need to be secondary damage that deadly, because the creature would just rip the head off of the sleeping prey. Temperate forests is good, though, and I like the bonus to Hide checks.

If we wanted to give it some pseudodragon flavor, we could say that it treats prey like a cat playing with a mouse--giving it a sting, letting it run for a while, toying with it.

 

[Shade]

Needs to have worse flying or slower flying. This criter barely flies this thing is T-Rex with Wings (that's my mental picture I'm running with it).

Speed is fine (it matched the wyvern in 2e), but I'll agree it should probably be a clumsy flier.

If we wanted to give it some pseudodragon flavor, we could say that it treats prey like a cat playing with a mouse--giving it a sting, letting it run for a while, toying with it.

I like that!

Toss out improved grab with the talons (from which the wyvern's is triggered)?

 

[Cleon]

I'm fine with the revised stats, except somewhere along the way I screwed up and indavertently improved Int to 4, when these are clearly animal intelligence. I've corrected that to 2.

That wasn't you, it was me. If you look back in post #965 you'll see it says "I'd use the stat of the Wyvern, but drop its Int to 2", but I just forgot to change it.

I also retained the wyvern's full attack routine, and would like the advancement to follow the wyvern's up to Gargantuan. I'm open to debate, though.

I prefer sting/bite/talon/talon myself and Advancement up to Huge.

EDIT: Although I'm fine with it just having bite/sting like the original.

Some things we might borrow from the pseudodragon...

• Add "and temperate forests" to the Environment line.
• Blindsense
• Racial bonus on Hide checks
• Initial damage on poison could be sleep

We don't have to use any of that, just some food for thought.

Great minds think alike (at least partially), I'd back changing the Environment to "Warm or temperate hills and forests" and would consider a racial bonus to Hide. I'd also toyed with the notion of dropping its fly to clumsy, but its original manoeuvrability of D matched up with poor, while an AD&D wyvern is an even clumsier flier (type E). Still, it fits with it always landing to fight, so we might as well change it.

Blindsense I'd vote against, since there's nothing to support it in the original. There's no mention that it can see invisible like the AD&D pseudodragon.

I still prefer slow for its poison's initial effect.

 

[Cleon]

OK, there are a few minor errors in the attack lines. Some of the strength bonuses haven't been downgraded from a wyvern's. We've got:

Attack: Sting +7 melee (1d4+2 plus poison) or talon +7 melee (1d8+2) or bite +7 melee (1d10+2)
Full Attack: Sting +7 melee (1d4+4 plus poison) and bite +5 melee (1d10+4) and 2 wings +5 melee (1d6+1) and 2 talons +5 melee (1d8+2)
​

when it should be:

Attack: Sting +7 melee (1d4+2 plus poison) or talon +7 melee (1d8+2) or bite +7 melee (1d10+2)
Full Attack: Sting +7 melee (1d4+2 plus poison) and bite +5 melee (1d10+2) and 2 wings +5 melee (1d6+1) and 2 talons +5 melee (1d8+2)
​

That's assuming we don't drop the wing and/or talon attacks like I suggested in my previous post.

 

[Shade]

I thought so at first, but check the SRD: Wyvern.

It appears to follow some bastardized twist on the true dragon overview, with bite, tail, and claws getting full strength and wing buffets getting half strength.

 

[Cleon]

I thought so at first, but check the SRD: Wyvern.

It appears to follow some bastardized twist on the true dragon overview, with bite, tail, and claws getting full strength and wing buffets getting half strength.

My suggested correction does have the Bloodstingers full damage bonus for bite, claw and tail and half to wing buffet. My point was that some of the attacks in the current version still have the +4 damage bonus from the wyvern's 19 Strength rather than the +2 from the 'stingers Str 15.

 

[demiurge1138]

Toss out improved grab with the talons (from which the wyvern's is triggered)?

I think so, yeah. We could keep the imp grab and attach it to the bite, perhaps, if you think they should be grappling.