Converting monsters from Dragon magazine

[demiurge1138]

I think we should give them regen overcome by both fire and cold.

 

[freyar]

I think something like the aballin would work, without the acid part.

And demiurge's suggestion of regen captures the spirit of the original without being too complicated. But I'm trying to figure out what I prefer still.

 

[Cleon]

I think something like the aballin would work, without the acid part.

Yes, that's more or less what I imagined when you first proposes a grab & engulf approach. I certainly the Aballin version matches the Well Spirit's modus operandi better than the Drowning Aura version.

The problem with using standard drowning/suffocating rules is an average PC would only risk drowning after being held by the Well Spirit for a few minutes, and most combats only last a few rounds.

How about having the target make a Fort save each round to continue holding their breath rather than the standard "Any character can hold her breath for a number of rounds equal to twice her Constitution score", and start drowning if they fail?

And demiurge's suggestion of regen captures the spirit of the original without being too complicated. But I'm trying to figure out what I prefer still.[/quote]

I hesitate to bring this up, but the original Well Spirit's "regeneration" is only for recovery from the non-lasting effects of subdual damage (i.e. nonlethal damage in 3E terms).

I'd be tempted to just forget about it, or give it Fast Healing that does not apply to fire damage. I wouldn't interpret it as being equal to regeneration, since the original Well Spirit does not reform from "fatal" damage.

As for its susceptibility to cold, how about giving it vulnerability to cold (+50% damage) but add that cold attacks only do nonlethal damage to Well Spirits?

Oh, and they should have vulnerability to fire, obviously.

 

[freyar]

On the drowning, a Fort save or Con check every round to hold breath is ok. Upthread, I suggested following the usual drowning rules but starting the Con checks immediately.

 

[Shade]

I think simplifying to regen overcome by cold and fire, as well as vulnerability to fire, is the simplest, most elegant solution.

Here's an attempt at modifying the aballin's ability to fit this creature...

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a well spirit must hit with a slam attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can attempt to drown its victim.

Drown (Su): With a successful grapple check, a well spirit draws the victim into its fluid body. The victim is at risk of drowning (see Water Dangers in the DMG for the risks and effects of drowning). A well spirit is not considered grappled while drowning a victim.

A trapped victim can attack the well spirit or make additional grapple checks to escape its grasp. The character cannot cast spells with a verbal component or use any other item or ability that requires speech. A trapped victim may hold its breath, but must succeed on a DC X Fortitude save each round to continue holding its breath. The save DC is Constitution-based.

 

[freyar]

That looks pretty good. Should the Fort DC increase each round, like the Con checks do normally?

 

[demiurge1138]

Increasing the DC of the Fort saves might be too mean--what's the baseline Con DC for these guys?

 

[Shade]

Dc 19.

 

[Cleon]

Drown (Su): With a successful grapple check, a well spirit draws the victim into its fluid body. The victim is at risk of drowning (see Water Dangers in the DMG for the risks and effects of drowning). A well spirit is not considered grappled while drowning a victim.

A trapped victim can attack the well spirit or make additional grapple checks to escape its grasp. The character cannot cast spells with a verbal component or use any other item or ability that requires speech. A trapped victim may hold its breath, but must succeed on a DC X Fortitude save each round to continue holding its breath. The save DC is Constitution-based.

That's pretty much what I was thinking of.

I did wonder about making it Strength-based (DC21) rather than Constitution-based, but that would give Gargantuan Well Spirits a bigger boost on the DC so I think Con works better.

Should we add some kind of size limits to how many creatures the spirit can hold? Something like the following (I've moved all the drowning saves into the first paragraph):

Drown (Su): A well spirit can draw a held opponent into its fluid body with a successful grapple check. Victims trapped inside the well spirit must succeed on a DC19 Fortitude save each round or drown (see Water Dangers in the DMG for the effects of drowning) unless they can breath water. A well spirit is not considered grappled while drowning a victim. A Huge-sized well spirit can drown a single victim of Huge or larger size, or up to 4 Large, 16 Medium, 64 Small or 256 Diminutive smaller creatures.

A trapped victim can attack the well spirit or make additional grapple checks to escape its grasp. The character cannot cast spells with a verbal component or use any other item or ability that requires speech. The save DC is Constitution-based.​

 

[freyar]

Size limits are ok with me, though I think it can only start with a Large critter since Imp Grab requires a size category smaller by default (unless we want to change it).