Converting monsters from Dragon magazine

[Cleon]

That looks good to me.

Updating the Great Orm Working Draft.

For our revolting appearance. We have a sort-of similar Horrific Appearance in the CC for the Mountain Hag:

I'm not entirely opposed to Str damage in this case, but I don't think it would really be an accurate conversion. You know, based on the last line of the original critter ("Whatever game system you use, don’t be surprised if your NPC hirelings, colleagues, or whatever take to their heels at the first sight of the thing."), we could just go with standard Frightful Appearance.

Do you want Frightful Presence à la a True Dragon or the Frightful Appearance ability we came up with for our Galley Beggar conversion?

Frightful Presence (Ex): A young adult or older dragon can unsettle foes with its mere presence. The ability takes effect automatically whenever the dragon attacks, charges, or flies overhead. Creatures within a radius of 30 feet × the dragon’s age category are subject to the effect if they have fewer HD than the dragon. A potentially affected creature that succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 dragon’s HD + dragon’s Cha modifier) remains immune to that dragon’s frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failure, creatures with 4 or less HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds. Dragons ignore the frightful presence of other dragons.

Frightful Appearance (Su): A galley beggar can unsettle foes with its mere presence. The ability takes effect automatically whenever the beggar attacks, charges, or suddenly appears (usually by dropping its greater invisibility). Creatures within a radius of 60 feet are subject to the effect unless they have more HD than the galley beggar. A potentially affected creature that succeeds on a DC 14 Will save remains immune to that galley beggar's frightful appearance for 24 hours. On a failure, creatures with up to half the beggar's HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds, while those with more HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds. The save DC is Charisma-based.

 

[freyar]

Oh, I meant Frightful Presence like the true dragons. I think that's probably the closest in spirit to the original monster, since it's the hirelings, etc, who will run away.

 

[Cleon]

Oh, I meant Frightful Presence like the true dragons. I think that's probably the closest in spirit to the original monster, since it's the hirelings, etc, who will run away.

Okay, so something like...

Frightful Appearance (Ex): A great orm can unsettle foes with its mere presence. The ability takes effect automatically whenever the great orm attacks, charges, or suddenly appears. Creatures within a radius of X feet are subject to the effect if they have fewer HD than the orm. A potentially affected creature that succeeds on a DC Y Will save remains immune to that great orm’s frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failure, creatures with 4 or less HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds. The save DC is Charisma-based.

The only variable we have is the radius of effect. It's got 20 HD, which is enough for many dragons to reach the Adult age category, which suggests a radius of 180 feet.

 

[freyar]

That looks good with a 180 ft radius, but I guess we should call it Frightful Presence.

 

[Cleon]

That looks good with a 180 ft radius, but I guess we should call it Frightful Presence.

I'm au fait with both, so...

Updating the Great Orm Working Draft.

 

[Cleon]

Hmm, looks like we've just got Organization and Challenge Rating left unresolved as far as the mechanics goes.

The original source uses Elasmosaurus stats unless otherwise stated.

A 2E AD&D Elasmosaurus has No. Appearing of 1-2, which'd become Organization: Solitary or pair in 3E.

A 3E Elasmosaurus has Organization: Solitary, pair, or herd (5-8).

I've heard of someone seeing multiple "Orms" in Loch Ness, which'd suggest the latter, but using Solitary or Pair would be closer to the original wording.

I'd be happy with either though, so which do you prefer?

 

[freyar]

I think I prefer an org of solitary or pair.

I think I spotted a typo: speed should be "20 ft (4 squares)" with a plural.

These are mechanically similar to a purple worm --- worse in AC and attack bonus but with better damage and 50 more hp. All-in-all, though, similar, so I think I'd go with CR 12 like the worm.

 

[Cleon]

I think I prefer an org of solitary or pair.

Fine!

I think I spotted a typo: speed should be "20 ft (4 squares)" with a plural.

You forgot the full stop after "ft".

These are mechanically similar to a purple worm --- worse in AC and attack bonus but with better damage and 50 more hp. All-in-all, though, similar, so I think I'd go with CR 12 like the worm.

A purple worm has a Swallow Whole attack, and while the Great Orm's poison is nastier technically it's mainly defensive - it doesn't deliver its poison via a sting like the worm.

Still, Challenge Rating 12 seems about right.

The base creature was a SRD Elasmosaurus advanced to 20 HD which is CR 11 or so, and the extra special attacks ought to be worth another CR.

Updating the Great Orm Working Draft.

 

[Cleon]

Updating the Great Orm Working Draft.

Hang on a mo. Why do we have a "(but see description)" in the Treasure line?

Great Orms don't have treasure or valuable body parts, so I'm guessing that's a holdover from whatever creature I copy-and-pasted the original stat block from.

I think that was the "Godfather" turtle, which has that Treasure line.

I'd better cut it out.

Also, shouldn't it have the (Aquatic) subtype and either Amphibious or Water Dependent to account for the "crawl onto land" ability.

I'd prefer Water Dependent myself.

 

[freyar]

I agree that there should be no treasure. I also like Water Dependent, though an hour per point of Con is almost amphibious unless they're on a long journey.