Converting monsters from Dragon magazine

[Cleon]

HD 14 plus cleric casting sounds good. Let's give them spells from the Evil and Madness (and maybe Destruction?) domains, but I think I'd rather re-write the powers to be stronger. Plus epic group casting.

Sound good.

Rather than something clichèd like Destruction I was thinking we could give them something more interesting, like Community or Creation. Or Community and Creation.

I was wondering whether we can recycle some of the Collaborative Spellcasting ability we came up with the Tso, although that was designed for 'Regular' spellcasting rather than 'Epic'.

We could probably borrow some mechanics from the goatlings, too, now that I think of it.

I feel that'll add unnecessary complications. We can give them various built-in bonuses or additional special abilities if we want to make them tougher without having to keep track of "empowerment points" or the equivalent.

We could borrow the derro's madness ability for all/part of the revised Madness domain power. But the main thing I really like is an insight bonus of some kind. Thoughts?

Firstly, the current stats have the same scores in Wisdom and Charisma so there's no Will save benefit.

Secondly, if they have actual cleric casting that'll be Wis-based so having the low Wisdom usually associated with madness in 3E would really hinder them, unless we give them some kind of "Improved Madness" or "Mad Priest" SQ that lets them swap Charisma for Wisdom for their priest abilities.

As for the insight bonus. Sure, why not.

 

[freyar]

I'm not tied to any of the domains in particular, though Madness seems appropriate. Community and Madness, maybe?

The Tso's collaborative spellcasting is definitely a better source of inspiration than the goatling, you're right. Though it's still fairly complex.

Yeah, you're right, let's not bother with madness. But let's use the insight bonus, maybe Cha-based.

 

[Cleon]

I'm not tied to any of the domains in particular, though Madness seems appropriate. Community and Madness, maybe?

Since the Dark King they serve had all three types of fiends in his service I'd add Evil to that list.

Community, Evil, Madness.

The Tso's collaborative spellcasting is definitely a better source of inspiration than the goatling, you're right. Though it's still fairly complex.

I was thinking we could set it up so it doesn't matter in play. If the collaborative casting is time consuming enough, so encounters which feature it are a matter of stopping the priests finishing a collaborative spell they've already started rather than the priests spontaneously casting an epic kill-all-the-PCs spell two rounds into the melee we don't have to fuss too much over the details.

I remember us converting another race of collaborative spellcasters apart from the Tso - some kind of subterranean lizardfolk. Have to find out what they were.

Yeah, you're right, let's not bother with madness. But let's use the insight bonus, maybe Cha-based.

Rather that the Madness SQ of the Derro we could give it the Madness Domain granted power or an improved variant of that:

The character gains an Insanity score equal to half his or her class level. For spellcasting (determining bonus spells and DCs), the character uses his or her Wisdom score plus his or her Insanity score in place of Wisdom alone.

For all other purposes, such as skills and saves, use Wisdom minus Insanity in place of Wisdom.

Once per day, the character can see and act with the clarity of true madness. Use the character’s Insanity score as a positive rather than a negative modifier on a single roll involving Wisdom. Choose to use this power before the roll is made.

I'd also be tempted by the +1 CL for Evil spells granted power of the Evil Domain.

The Community Domain's competence bonus on Diplomacy checks is sort-of-appropriate for a priest, but the calm emotions SLA seems very inappropriate. Something like enthrall or rage seem much better for a Eldritch Priest of Evil.

 

[Cleon]

I remember us converting another race of collaborative spellcasters apart from the Tso - some kind of subterranean lizardfolk. Have to find out what they were.

Found it. I was thinking of the Rautym. Overall I prefer their Dance Magic approach to collaborative spells to the Cooperative Spellcasting of the Tso.

 

[abe ray]

Any new thoughts on this subject?


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[Cleon]

Any new thoughts on this subject?


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Not recently. I was waiting for Freyar to catch up.

Guess I could do a rough draft for a Rautym-based spontaneous spellcasting ability.

 

[freyar]

Oooh, I do like that rautym's dance casting for this. We can just make it epic and increase the casting time from minutes to hours per minimum caster level. Or 10 minutes per CL if an hour is too long for you. But I think we can use that ability almost verbatim, maybe replacing dancing/somatic with chanting/verbal or something priestly. Have to run, may try to sketch it out later tonight.

 

[freyar]

Here's a draft ability. I highlighted parts that might be up for discussion in red font.

Chant Magic (Sp): Priests of Ythog-Nthlei possess a unique ability to work magic by chanting. At least two priests are needed to work dance magic. One priest acts as the focus of the magic, and the others chant to generate the magic.

Chant magic can create any arcane or divine spell, including epic magic, that the focal priest has witnessed being cast. Chant magic spells are treated as sorcerer/wizard spells with a DC based on the Charisma of the focal priest. Chant magic spells always have a verbal component even if the original spell does not. The focal priest can apply any metamagic feats it possesses to the chant magic spell, except for Silent Spell or Quicken Spell. The spell's caster level normally equals the total HD of priests participating (maximum caster level 20 plus the Hit Dice of the focus priest), but the priests can lower the casting level to reduce the casting time (see below). The caster level must be high enough for a sorcerer of that level to cast the chosen spell, including metamagic effects.

Chant magic is slow. Completing the chant and casting the spell takes a number of hours equal to the minimum caster level of the spell (see above); if the number of priests in the group exceeds the minimum caster level the casting time is reduced by 30 minutes per additional priest (minimum of 1 hour or the spell's normal casting time). The priests of Ythog Nthlei can cast the chant magic spell faster by lowering the caster level (down to the minimum caster level for the spell). For every level the caster level is lowered the casting time is reduced by 1 hour (minimum of 1 minute or the spell's normal casting time). For example, if a chanting group normally casts spells at CL 20th it could cast a spell at CL 10th to reduce the casting time by 10 minutes or CL 1st to reduce it by 19 minutes.

Chant magic spells do not require material or XP components, but spells with these components take longer to dance; for every 10 XP or 250 gp worth of components the spell normally requires, the dance magic takes 10 minutes longer to complete.

If the focal priest's concentration on the dance magic is broken (same procedure as interrupting a spell), the chant magic is ruined. If a chanter's concentration is interrupted, they are unable to contribute to the dance magic. Interrupted chanters reduce the effective caster level of the group, thereby increases the casting time and possibly ruining the chant magic if the caster level is reduced to less than the spell's minimum.

 

[Cleon]

Here's a draft ability. I highlighted parts that might be up for discussion in red font.

Chant Magic (Sp): Priests of Ythog-Nthlei possess a unique ability to work magic by chanting. At least two priests are needed to work dance magic. One priest acts as the focus of the magic, and the others chant to generate the magic.

*SNIP*

There are a lot of "dances" that should be changed to "chants" and I think we should drop the single focal priest element - in the original adventure all the priests stop chanting and attack the PCs without interrupting their spell-weaving.

So I think that to interrupt the spell-weaving would require ALL of the priests to be killed or have their concentration broken, so as long as at least one of them makes all its Concentration check in a round the spell can continue.

Also, I think we need to say that none of the priests can use a (Sp) ability while "chanting" without disrupting the chant, since in the adventure they only use their natural attacks and innate supernatural abilities to attack the PCs.

Oh, and since we're allowing Epic Spellcasting we'd better give them a bonus to the Spellcraft check required to cast the epic spell commensurate with the caster level they communal spellcasting operates at. If they just use the default Spellcraft of a priest they'd be very unlikely to hit the high Spellcraft DC most Epic Spells require.

Let me think about it for a bit. Hopefully I can whip up a counter-proposal before too long.

 

[abe ray]

Maybe they do the running man for speed inducing spells?


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