Converting monsters from Dragon magazine

Cleon

Hero
Grandfather-Of-All-The-Turtles Working Draft

Turtle, Grandfather-Of-All-The-Turtles
Gargantuan Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 24d10+192 (324 hp)
Initiative: -2
Speed: 5 ft. (1 square), fly 40 ft. (average, overland flight), swim 40 ft.
Armor Class: 20 (-4 size, -2 Dex, +16 natural), touch 4, flat-footed 20
Base Attack/Grapple: +24/+49
Attack: Bite +33 melee (2d10+19/19-20)
Full Attack: Bite +33 melee (2d10+19/19-20)
Space/Reach: 20 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Capsize, improved grab, spell-like abilities, summon chelonians, swallow whole
Special Qualities: Camouflage, change size, dire, fortification, hold breath, low-light vision, overland flight
Saves: Fort +22, Ref +16, Will +19
Abilities: Str 36, Dex 7, Con 26, Int 13, Wis 20, Cha 17
Skills: Concentration +24, Diplomacy +19, Knowledge (nature) +11, Knowledge (religion) +11, Knowledge (the planes) +11, Spot +24, Survival +5 (+7 above ground and on other planes), Swim +21
Feats: Augment Summoning, Awesome Blow, Diehard, Endurance, Epic Reflexes, Improved Critical (bite), Improved Bull-Rush, Power Attack, Quicken Spell-Like Ability (greater dispel magic)
Environment: Any aquatic
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 16
Treasure: None (but see description)
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 17-32 HD (Gargantuan), 33-48 HD (Colossal)
Level Adjustment:

A titanic turtle as big as a merchantship. Its head has large eyes and a mouth so wide its head seems to split in two. The inside of its mouth is bright red and surrounded by fleshy filaments. Most of the scales that cover the turtle are so smooth and tiny they're barely visible, but the rear of its shell has scales ridged like roof-shingles and several feet long.

A grandfather-of-all-the-turtles is a legendary reptile that some cultures considered a sacred beast. They live in both fresh and salt water, unlike the purely marine father-of-all-the-turtles. Grandfathers-of-all-the-turtles can fly and travel the planes at will, so one may appear in any lake or sea, or even a small pond. These turtles can eat the same aquatic plants and animals as normal giant turtles but prefer to obtain their food magically via their heroes' feast spell-like ability.

Folklore says this mysterious creature is either the avatar of a "Turtle God" or a father-of-all-the-turtles of such vast wisdom it transcended its animal origins. What is certain is grandfathers-of-all-the-turtles sometimes serve as intermediaries between Material Plane people and divine beings such as deities or dragon rulers. Some other grandfather-of-all-the-turtles serve as guardians of aquatic life, particularly turtles.

When not performing some task for nature or the gods, most grandfathers-of-all-the-turtles are extremely shy and furtive. They avoid interacting with humanoids but may watch them secretly, either by shrinking to Diminutive size and hiding or plane shifting to observe from the Ethereal Plane.

Grandfathers-of-all-the-turtles do not value treasure, but do occasionally have treasure given to them by a divine patron to deliver to a chosen mortal (or protect until a worthy owner appears). Such divine treasures are often powerful magic items or even artifacts, and some have served as the foundation relic of a dynasty or religion. The turtle may return to retrieve its patron's gift once the treasure's time on earth is done.

There are reports that some of these creatures possess additional powers. Known examples include breath weapons, transporting incredible loads (in one case, flying while carrying a small island), producing earthquakes, regeneration, the ability to grant wishes to small children, having alternate forms (usually a normal-sized humanoid or an enormous tortle), or the power to store and retrieve items from an extradimensional "strongbox". A grandfather-of-all-the-turtles with a divine patron may by temporarily endowed with a power to fulfill a task or duty, but most such powers are innate abilities.

A grandfather-of-all-the-turtles typically measures from 40 to 60 feet from snout to tail, with a shell from 30 to 50 feet in diameter, and weighs 120 tons or more. The oldest individuals grow to length of 100 feet or more.

Grandfathers-of-all-the-turtles can speak Aquan, Celestial, Draconic and Sylvan.

COMBAT
Grandfathers-of-all-the-turtles normally only fight if the situation is vital; they would rather fly, swim, or plane shift away from threats. Given time, they use control weather and summon chelonians to gather allies and change the environment in their favor.

A grandfather-of-all-the-turtle's battle tactics are pretty straightforward. It uses change size, flight and/or plane shift to get within melee range of their opponents then attack with its bite. Smaller opponents may be swallowed whole, but only if the turtle judges them too weak to injure it internally. Enemy spellcasters will be countered by greater dispel magic (quickened when necessary).

Grandfathers-of-all-the-turtles routinely apply their arcane sight, heroes' feast, true seeing and water breathing spell-like abilities to themselves. Remember the heroes' feast grants them 1d8+10 temporary hit points, immunity to poison and fear effects, and a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and Will saves.

Camouflage (Ex): A grandfather-of-all-the-turtles can blend into the color of deep water or imitate the shape of a natural marine feature of approximately its own size and shape, such as a small shoal, an islet, or a mound upon a beach. So long as the chelonian does not move, it requires a DC 25 Spot check for another creature to notice it is not part of the scenery. It takes a grandfather-of-all-the-turtles 1 minute to assume a camouflage.

Capsize (Ex): A submerged grandfather-of-all-the-turtles that surfaces under a boat or ship less than 40 feet long capsizes the vessel 95% of the time. It has a 50% chance to capsize a vessel from 40 to 90 feet long and a 20% chance to capsize one over 90 feet long.

Change Size (Su): As a standard action, a grandfather-of-all-the-turtles can magically reduce its size. This functions like a reduce person spell, except that the ability can work on the grandfather-of-all-the-turtles and it may reduce its size as small as Diminutive. A grandfather-of-all-the-turtles can return to normal size as a swift action.

Fortification (Ex): Whenever a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on the grandfather-of-all-the-turtles there is a 75% chance that the special attack is negated and its damage is rolled normally, similar to the effect of armour enchanted with the Moderate Fortification quality.

Hold Breath (Ex): A grandfather-of-all-the-turtles can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 10 × its Constitution score before it risks drowning. For a typical specimen, this is 260 rounds, or 26 minutes.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a grandfather-of-all-the-turtles must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can swallow whole.

Overland Flight (Sp): A grandfather-of-all-the-turtles can fly as per the overland flight spell (CL 20th). This ability is constant but can be dispelled. The turtle can suppress or resume it as a free action.

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): At-Will—arcane sight, greater dispel magic, plane shift, true seeing, water breathing. 3/day—contact other planes, quickened greater dispel magic, heroes' feast. 1/day—control weather (druid version). Caster level 20th.

Summon Chelonians (Sp): Once a day, a grandfather-of-all-the turtles can summon a group of turtle creatures to aid them. This group comprises of 2d6+6 nikt'oo, ferry turtles or juvenile tojanida; plus 2d4+2 adult tojanida or giant sea turtles; plus 1d4+1 giant snapping turtles, 1d3 fathers-of-all-the-turtles, or a single dragon turtle or elder tojanida. The summoned chelonians will serve the grandfather-of-all-the turtles for up to 1 hour before vanishing back to whence they came. This is the equivalent of a 9th level spell.

Swallow Whole (Ex): A grandfather-of-all-the-turtles can try to swallow a grabbed opponent up to two sizes smaller than itself by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent takes 2d10+13 points of crushing damage plus 8 points of acid damage per round from the turtle's gizzard. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the gizzard (AC 18). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. A Gargantuan father-of-all-the-turtles' interior can hold 2 Large, 8 Medium, 32 Small, 128 Tiny, or 512 Diminutive or smaller opponents.

Skills: A grandfather-of-all-the-turtles has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. A grandfather-of-all-the-turtles can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #190 (1993).
 
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freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Don't you mean a later generation? ;)

Did you have some ideas for the SLAs? Weather controlling abilities are tried-and-true for sea monsters, right?
 

Cleon

Hero
Don't you mean a later generation? ;)

Did you have some ideas for the SLAs? Weather controlling abilities are tried-and-true for sea monsters, right?

Yeah, going from various mythological and fantasy titbits...

contact other planes and plane shift (to act as "messengers of the gods").

size reduction to the scale of an ordinary turtle.

water breathing (both self and others).

overland flight (I'll skip the flames shooting from the shell-holes, though ;)).

Maybe summon nature's allies (aquatic reptiles only)?
 


Cleon

Hero
I can go for all those SLAs.

The Size Reduction will need to be a custom SLA or Su power to be worthwhile.

We'll also need to decide on a level for the summon nature's allies. I guess that depends on how big a reptile we want them to summon.

Hmm, we could make that a custom SLA like a summon tanar'ri ability, then we can provide a list of creatures.

I can go for all those SLAs.

I'd have no objection to any of them. Do you fancy any in particular, or just all of them?

For some reason I'm fancying a food-creation SLA or two - maybe I'm just hungry, but heroes feast seems tempting.

Plus we can add a few of the usual suspects like greater dispel magic or arcane sight.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Can't we crib size reduction from the efreet?

Using something like summon tanar'ri or all the other similar abiilties is fine.

Let's use all of those SLAs, heroes' feast, and control weather. OK with you?
 

Cleon

Hero
Can't we crib size reduction from the efreet?

I was thinking of using something like this:

Size Change (Su): An elemaster can become any size, from Fine to its natural size of Colossal.

Change Size (Su): As a standard action, a demonic sawfly can magically reduce its size. This functions like a reduce person spell, except that the ability can work on the demonic sawfly and it may reduce its size as small as Fine. A demonic sawfly can return to normal size as a swift action.

The Demonic Sawfly version is closest to the Efreet's.

We'll need to agree on a minimum size.

I was thinking Diminutive. The Turtle Familiar in Dragon #323 has the same stats as the DMG Hedgehog, which is Diminutive, so it seems appropriate to have its smallest size be that of a pet terrapin.

Tiny would be OK too, if you prefer.

Using something like summon tanar'ri or all the other similar abiilties is fine.

That's the ticket!

Any preferences for the summoned creatures. I suppose we could include ferry turtles, giant sea turtles and dragon turtles.

Maybe add another one or two non-turtles for variety, such as an Elasmosaurus or three?

Let's use all of those SLAs, heroes' feast, and control weather. OK with you?

OK with me!

Would this do:

Overland Flight (Sp): A grandfather-of-all-the-turtles can fly as per the overland flight spell. This ability is constant but can be dispelled. The turtle can suppress or resume it as a free action.

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): At-Will—arcane sight, greater dispel magic, plane shift, true seeing, water breathing. 3/day—contact other planes, heroes feast. 1/day—control weather. Caster level X.

CL 20th?

I'm tempted to add in a statement that the control weather is the druid version, which is larger and lasts longer, or arbitrarily say it has a larger area - e.g. "control weather (druid version)" or "control weather (affects 10 mile radius)".
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Diminutive is ok. I think we should take the sawfly/efreet version.

I'd go for all turtles and turtle-like things. Along with ferry turtles, giant seat turtles, and dragon turtles, I'd add fathers-of-all-the-turtles and turtle-like tojanidas.

CL 20 is fine, as is the druid version of control weather. Overland Flight and SLAs look good.

What else do you want?
 

Cleon

Hero
Diminutive is ok. I think we should take the sawfly/efreet version.

CL 20 is fine, as is the druid version of control weather. Overland Flight and SLAs look good.

Updating Grandfather-Of-All-The-Turtles Working Draft.

Hold on, I forgot the apostrophe in heroes' feast.

Re-updating Grandfather-Of-All-The-Turtles Working Draft.

I'd go for all turtles and turtle-like things. Along with ferry turtles, giant seat turtles, and dragon turtles, I'd add fathers-of-all-the-turtles and turtle-like tojanidas.

Those are good suggestions. I take it you don't fancy Elasmosaurus's then.

I suppose we could include Giant Snapping Turtles and Nikt'oo too?

We'll need to decide on some numbers.

A Father-Of-All-The-Turtles is CR 8.
A Dragon Turtle's CR 9.
The current Enworld conversion of the Giant Snapping Turtle is CR 9, but that's way too high. Methinks it needs an update to 3.5 with a CR around 7.
Giant Sea Turtles are CR 5.
The Ferry Turtle and Nikt'oo are both CR 3.

Are we using elder (CR 9), adult (CR 5), or juvenile (CR 3) Tojanidas, or all three?

Rather than a single type of turtle-creature, how about we have Grampa Turtle summon a few "big guys" and a school of "little guys" with the same summoning?

e.g.

Summon Chelonians (Sp): Once [?] a day, a grandfather-of-all-the turtles can summon a group of turtle creatures to aid them. This group comprises of 2d6+6 [?] nikt'oo, ferry turtles or juvenile tojanida; plus 2d4+2 [?] adult tojanida or giant sea turtles; plus 1d4+1 giant snapping turtles, 1d3 fathers-of-all-the-turtles, or a single dragon turtle or elder tojanida. The summoned chelonians will serve the grandfather-of-all-the turtles for up to 1 hour before vanishing back to whence they came. This is the equivalent of a 9th level spell.

What else do you want?

Well can you think of any more special abilities they need?

Hmm, I suppose we could upgrade the Fortification to Heavy (100%), but I'm OK with it as is.

We could give them some way to improve their Armor Class. That seems turtle-like. Maybe add mage armor and stoneskin to their SLAs? Or give them a luck (Cha) or insight (Wis) bonus to AC? Maybe even several of those bonii?

Also, from what the little I remember of the Korean legends about Grandfather Turtle, he gave a dynasty founder a magic sword. That's why I've redded in "items" in the Treasure line. It also suggests we need to give him some means of transporting items - he can't carry things with flippers!

Perhaps a combination of telekinesis, mage hand, and secret chest?
 


Cleon

Hero
Why not just apply the Kaiju template to an ordinary Giant Turtle?

Well, if you're talking about the Dragon #289 Kaiju template that isn't OGL so we don't have permission to use it.

The beastie'd also end up a good deal bigger. The Kaiju template would turn a Giant Sea Turtle into a 48 HD Colossal Magical Beast, which is twice the size and HD of the current draft.

More significantly, the template doesn't have many of the magical abilities we've been talking about, nor does it provide the high mental stats we're after - a Kaiju Giant Sea Turtle would have Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 24.
 

Quartz

Hero
Well, if you're talking about the Dragon #289 Kaiju template that isn't OGL so we don't have permission to use it.

That's a pretty big no-no. :( It's a pity, as the weather-controlling powers would have been very thematic.

More significantly, the template doesn't have many of the magical abilities we've been talking about, nor does it provide the high mental stats we're after - a Kaiju Giant Sea Turtle would have Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 24.

You could put the Paragon template on as well - Paragon gives +15 to all stats. A Paragon Kaiju (as opposed to a Kaiju Paragon - the order of the templates matters) would have INT 17, Wis 27, Cha 39.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Quartz, welcome to the CC, please feel free to join in all you like!

But I don't really think applying templates is the way to go; the CC is mostly about doing unique conversions. These critters need TLC. ;)

Cleon, I will agree to Summon Chelonians. And we should queue up the giant snapping turtles for an overhaul (why do I feel like we've done something with these recently, though?).
 

Cleon

Hero
You could put the Paragon template on as well - Paragon gives +15 to all stats. A Paragon Kaiju (as opposed to a Kaiju Paragon - the order of the templates matters) would have INT 17, Wis 27, Cha 39.

Yes, giving the Kaiju another template can give it an Int different from 2. That's how the Dragon article gave the Kaiju Monstrous Centipede Hotu-Bakete Int 6 - by adding the Half-Fiend template.

Besides, the CC conversions should be original, not just applying templates that already exist. Especially ones that appear in licensed products.

It's more fun that way. :cool:
 

Cleon

Hero
Cleon, I will agree to Summon Chelonians.

I'll add it to the Grandfather-Of-All-The-Turtles Working Draft.

Presumably the numbers and the once/day agree with you.

And we should queue up the giant snapping turtles for an overhaul.

Shall I start a upgrade conversion for them then?

(why do I feel like we've done something with these recently, though?).

We did conversions for the Nikt'oo and the Snapper. Those might have reminded you of it.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Yes, the whole summoning works for me.

Maybe we should just do the giant snapping turtles here when we're done with granddaddy? You're right, anyway, it is probably some other turtle critter that reminded me.

Anyway, any other special abilities for these? I have to say, I think they're looking pretty good. Unless you want to boost the threat range, damage, or crit multiplier on the bite just to make them that much more formidable. :devil:
 

Cleon

Hero
Yes, the whole summoning works for me.

That's means that bit's done then.

Maybe we should just do the giant snapping turtles here when we're done with granddaddy? You're right, anyway, it is probably some other turtle critter that reminded me.

The Giant Snapper's from the 1st edition Monster Manual originally and was reprinted in a couple of 2nd edition Monstrous Compendia (MC5 Greyhawk and the Second Monstrous Annual).

That suggests it belongs in Converting First Edition Monsters or the Second Edition Compendium thread.

We did the Giant Sea Turtle, Ferry Turtle and the Nikt'oo in Converting prehistoric creatures. I forget why those were in that thread - none of them are really "prehistoric" - but I guess it made sense at the time.

We've got the Cave Bear to do in the Prehistoric thread, though, so I'd rather not do the turtle there.

So do you prefer the Compendium thread or the First Edition thread? Neither are busy at the moment.

Anyway, any other special abilities for these? I have to say, I think they're looking pretty good. Unless you want to boost the threat range, damage, or crit multiplier on the bite just to make them that much more formidable. :devil:

I'm OK with what we have at the moment for its attacks. I didn't come across any folklore about them fighting, so I'm not that keen on a crit multiple.

I'd still like to give them an ability to help them transport stuff. Maybe an ability to phase-shift items into and out of an internal storage organ?

Their Swallow Whole ability allows them to carry a couple of horses in their stomach while shrunk to the size of a terrapin. If their stomachs are extradimensional, maybe the rest of their insides are too?
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I guess the giant snapping turtle should count as "first edition."

Interesting idea. Perhaps there is an air pocket inside their shell somewhere? Dimension door in and out?
 


Cleon

Hero
That suggests it belongs in Converting First Edition Monsters or the Second Edition Compendium thread.
I guess the giant snapping turtle should count as "first edition."

That'd suit me, except we're using that thread for some bony despots.

Unfortunately, both those threads are currently busy - one with the diabolical version of the Bloody Bones, the other with the Undead Dragon Slayer.

How about the Converting "Real World" Animals and Vermin thread?

I checked that one and it's definitely resting, and a Snapping Turtle is a Real World creature (although we don't need a conversion for the regular animal, as it's in Stormwrack.
 

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