Converting monsters from First Edition modules

[GreyShadow]

blindsmell?

 

[Shade]

Ok...moving right along...

Space/Reach: 20 ft./15 ft.

Any thoughts on my earlier post regarding special abilities?

 

[BOZ]

I haven’t forgotten ya! following is a good example of why I like to post quotes from multiple sources – the different wording can show different angles on how a monster works.

This immense and powerful creature eats its way through the solid rock, creating tunnels and passages in its wake. It does this by a combination of acid excretion and intense body heat (400 to 500 degrees Fahrenheit) that eats away and fuses the rock into a tunnel. When the creature is moving through granite, the tunnels become permanent; when it tunnels through sandstone, the passages collapse behind it. Perhaps thus do the great cavern networks of the Underdark come into being.

maybe…
Heat (Ex): A horgar’s body generates heat so intense that anything touching its body takes 10d4 points of fire damage. Creatures striking a horgar with natural attacks or unarmed attacks are subject to this damage, but creatures striking with melee weapons do not take damage from the horgar’s heat. This heat can melt or char weapons; any weapon that strikes a horgar is allowed a DC X Fortitude save to avoid destruction. The save DC is Constitution-based.

we could also add something about the heat fusing the stone that the acid dissolves, as above.

Any edged weapon strikes the stone-eater for half-normal damage and must roll on the Saving Throw Matrix for Magical and Nonmagical items (DMG, pg. 80) against crushing blow and then against acid. Non-edged weapons must roll on the matrix against acid.

Striking it with physical weapons is like hitting a granite boulder. Edged weapons cause only half damage and must roll saving throws vs. crushing blow. All weapons must roll saving throws vs. acid, which means edged weapons must roll two saving throws for each hit. Failure of either saving throw means the weapon is destroyed, either shattered or dissolved.

taking the “This immense and powerful creature” paragraph with the ones above, we get something kind of like this:

Corrosive Slime (Ex): A horgar produces a mucuslike slime that contains a highly corrosive substance. The slime is particularly effective against stone.

A horgar’s mere touch deals X points of acid damage to organic creatures or objects. Against metallic creatures or objects, a horgar’s slime deals X points of damage, and against stony creatures (including earth elementals) or objects it deals X points of damage. The passage of a horgar through earth leaves pools of pure acid that form at the bottom of the tunnel. Any creatures touching these pools with bare flesh take 10d4 points of acid damage.

A creature’s armor and clothing dissolve and become useless immediately unless the wearer succeeds on a DC X Reflex save. Weapons that strike a horgar or touch one of the pools of acid it leaves behind also dissolve immediately unless the wielder succeeds on a DC X Reflex save.

A creature attacking a horgar with natural weapons takes damage from its slime each time an attack hits unless the creature succeeds on a DC X Reflex save. These save DCs are Constitution-based.

The natural armor class of the stone-eater is due to its skin, which is solid rock up to five feet thick. This chitinous exterior is lined with fissures through which the natural acid and heat generated by the creature escape to the surface. Only the head (about 2' in diameter) is exposed.

I’m wondering if we could/should use this in any way?

The stone-eater can squirt its acid up to 20' as a weapon, but its other defenses are more formidable. If touched by bare flesh, the skin of the stone-eater causes 10d4 points of heat damage plus 20d4 points of acid damage automatically.

If the horgar can’t run away from attackers, it turns and fights. Its only weapon is to squirt acid from its head up to 20 feet away. At the first opportunity, it again tries to flee, Horgar are so hard to hurt, and so dangerous, that most creature just leave them alone.

Shade suggested an acid spray, while I had a line of acid going as its normal attack mode. I’m thinking that if we keep both, the line of acid should be its normal attack routine (since it has not other physical attacks), and the acid spray would be a more limited attack that it doesn’t use every round, maybe closer to what the ankheg does.

It is easy to detect a fresh stone-eater tunnel, because it radiates heat for up to 24 hours after the creature's passage. For up to three hours, the walls are dangerously hot, causing 1d20 points of damage if touched by bare flesh. Pools of liquid form at the bottom of the tunnel; those are pure acid. If stepped in, they cause 10d4 points of damage to bare flesh and cause any other items to roll on the matrix, as above.

The tunnels it leaves behind are dangerously hot for the first three hours, causing 2d10 points of damage if touched by bare flesh. Wood or paper that come in contact with a hot wall ignite instantly; metal that is in contact with the wall for one turn can cause 2d10 points of burn damage. The walls are still hot, but not dangerous, for a full 24 hours after the horgar passes. The tunnel is also littered with pools of acid, which cause 1d4x10 points of damage to bare flesh. Other objects must roll successful saving throws vs. acid or be destroyed.

I’m sure there’s a way to implement this, as a notation somewhere. I think the acidic remains part are covered above.

The horgar smells like the super-heated acid that it secretes from between its rock plates, somewhat like ammonia. The gases make other creatures' eyes water and irritate their mouths and nasal passages.

should we use this or is it just flavor text?

 

[GreyShadow]

With the pools of acid it leaves behind, would that be normal acid that mad adventurers could collect or special horgar acid?

 

[BOZ]

you never know. i think it should be collectable, but of course highly risky. does acid dry up over time or does it just sit there forever?

 

[GreyShadow]

I use Nitric acid at work. It evaporates into a gas as it eats into dripped on. Apart from glass and a couple of other substances.

If it was nitric acid the horgar was carving its tunnels, I wouldn't want to be in them afterwards. Not without a lot of fresh air.

 

[Shade]

Heat (Ex): A horgar’s body generates heat so intense that anything touching its body takes 10d4 points of fire damage. Creatures striking a horgar with natural attacks or unarmed attacks are subject to this damage, but creatures striking with melee weapons do not take damage from the horgar’s heat. This heat can melt or char weapons; any weapon that strikes a horgar is allowed a DC X Fortitude save to avoid destruction. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Lookin' good.

we could also add something about the heat fusing the stone that the acid dissolves, as above.

Corrosive Slime (Ex): A horgar produces a mucuslike slime that contains a highly corrosive substance. The slime is particularly effective against stone.

A horgar’s mere touch deals X points of acid damage to organic creatures or objects. Against metallic creatures or objects, a horgar’s slime deals X points of damage, and against stony creatures (including earth elementals) or objects it deals X points of damage. The passage of a horgar through earth leaves pools of pure acid that form at the bottom of the tunnel. Any creatures touching these pools with bare flesh take 10d4 points of acid damage.

A creature’s armor and clothing dissolve and become useless immediately unless the wearer succeeds on a DC X Reflex save. Weapons that strike a horgar or touch one of the pools of acid it leaves behind also dissolve immediately unless the wielder succeeds on a DC X Reflex save.

A creature attacking a horgar with natural weapons takes damage from its slime each time an attack hits unless the creature succeeds on a DC X Reflex save. These save DCs are Constitution-based.

Nice work!

I’m wondering if we could/should use this in any way?

High natural armor?

Shade suggested an acid spray, while I had a line of acid going as its normal attack mode. I’m thinking that if we keep both, the line of acid should be its normal attack routine (since it has not other physical attacks), and the acid spray would be a more limited attack that it doesn’t use every round, maybe closer to what the ankheg does.

I suggested it as an SA rather than a primary attack because both the bombardier beetle and the ankheg had their acid attacks as SAs, not on the attack line. I couldn't find any critters with acid spray on the attack line (but I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't out there).

I’m sure there’s a way to implement this, as a notation somewhere. I think the acidic remains part are covered above.

Perhaps the acid information from the environment section of the DMG could be applied:

"Corrosive acids deals 1d6 points of damage per round of exposure except in the case of total immersion (such as into a vat of acid), which deals 10d6 points of damage per round. An attack with acid, such as from a hurled vial or a monster’s spittle, counts as a round of exposure."

"The fumes from most acids are inhaled poisons. Those who come close enough to a large body of acid to dunk a creature in it must make a DC 13 Fortitude save or take 1 point of Constitution damage. All such characters must make a second save 1 minute later or take another 1d4 points of Constitution damage."

"Creatures immune to acid’s caustic properties might still drown in it if they are totally immersed (see Drowning)."

should we use this or is it just flavor text?

Hmmm...I'm tempted to say no, since acid normally doesn't have that effect. But part of me says that this is too interesting to pass up.

 

[BOZ]

Did I just misread “eats its way through the solid rock” as meaning it eats the rock instead of eats it away with acid?

It does this by a combination of acid excretion and intense body heat (400 to 500 degrees Fahrenheit) that eats away and fuses the rock into a tunnel.

When the creature is moving through granite, the tunnels become permanent; when it tunnels through sandstone, the passages collapse behind it.

Should we use these bits, and if so how?

High natural armor?

Right, I get that we have the high natural armor, but keep in mind the “solid rock up to five feet thick” is pretty unusual. Of course, we could always say that the damage reduction accounts for that and be done with it…

I suggested it as an SA rather than a primary attack because both the bombardier beetle and the ankheg had their acid attacks as SAs, not on the attack line. I couldn't find any critters with acid spray on the attack line (but I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't out there).

One thing to keep in mind that differentiates a horgar from other creatures that attack with acid, is that the horgar has no slam or other physical attacks because it lacks appendages. If it weren’t so danged slow I could even recommend some sort of charge. For the line of acid attack I’m suggesting something how the arrowhawk’s lightning ray is listed on the attack line (and we’d give a further explanation below).

It is easy to detect a fresh stone-eater tunnel, because it radiates heat for up to 24 hours after the creature's passage. For up to three hours, the walls are dangerously hot, causing 1d20 points of damage if touched by bare flesh.

The tunnels it leaves behind are dangerously hot for the first three hours, causing 2d10 points of damage if touched by bare flesh. Wood or paper that come in contact with a hot wall ignite instantly; metal that is in contact with the wall for one turn can cause 2d10 points of burn damage. The walls are still hot, but not dangerous, for a full 24 hours after the horgar passes.

could we add these parts to the heat attack, or make up something separate?

 

[Shade]

Did I just misread “eats its way through the solid rock” as meaning it eats the rock instead of eats it away with acid?

I think you did. (But I could be wrong).

Should we use these bits, and if so how?

Flavor text only?

Right, I get that we have the high natural armor, but keep in mind the “solid rock up to five feet thick” is pretty unusual. Of course, we could always say that the damage reduction accounts for that and be done with it…

Yeah, I think so. Other thick, rocklike creatures don't have any other special benefits (Galeb Duhr, Maulgoth, etc.)

One thing to keep in mind that differentiates a horgar from other creatures that attack with acid, is that the horgar has no slam or other physical attacks because it lacks appendages. If it weren’t so danged slow I could even recommend some sort of charge. For the line of acid attack I’m suggesting something how the arrowhawk’s lightning ray is listed on the attack line (and we’d give a further explanation below).

Trample? Squash like Juggernaut? Head butt/knockback (like Indricothere)?

could we add these parts to the heat attack, or make up something separate?

Add to heat attack.

 

[BOZ]

On second thought,

DIET: Rocks or earth

and the fact that it is called a “stone-eater” lead me to believe that it probably does digest earthen material.

Trample? Squash like Juggernaut? Head butt/knockback (like Indricothere)?

hmm, even if we do give it something like that (and I’m not currently in favor of it, though with some thought I may change my mind), I still want to keep the “acid squirt” in the attack line.

Add to heat attack.

how about as such:

The tunnels created by a horgar’s slime and body heat remain dangerously hot for three hours. Any creature or object touching the walls of such a tunnel (including the floor) takes 2d10 points of fire damage per round. Metal in contact with such a surface is affected as if by a heat metal spell, though it remains searing hot until removed from the wall. After the first three hours, the walls remain hot for a full 24 hours after the horgar has passed, though not hot enough to burn anything.