Converting monsters from Tales From The Infinite Staircase

[Cleon]

Agreed.



In First Edition AD&D ESP was a 2nd level magic-user spell that was basically a low-level version of telepathy that was only able to detect "surface thought" of a creature. The spell description is rather vague:

Explanation/Description: When an ESP spell is used, the caster is able to detect the surface thoughts of any creature in range — except creatures with no mind (as we know it), such as all of the undead. The ESP is stopped by 2 or more feet of rock, 2 inches of any metal other than lead, or a thin sheet of lead foil. The magic-user employing the spell is able to probe the surface thoughts of 1 creature per turn, getting simple instinctual thoughts from lower order creatures. Probes can continue on the same creature from round to round. The caster can use the spell to help determine if some creature lurks behind a door, for example, but the ESP will not always reveal what sort of creature it is. The material component of this spell is a copper piece.​

There's also a psionic version:

This discipline allows the user to "tune in" to the unshielded thoughs of the minds of any creatures within range when the power is employed. In most respects it is identical to the magic-user spell, ESP (q.v.). Thoughts received in non-understood languages will be meaningless. Non-intelligent creatures will transmit "pictures" or raw drives.​

Notice it adds the interesting wrinkle that it doesn't breach the language barrier, so if you read the mind of an orc who's thinking in Orcish a MU who doesn't speak that language won't understand the surface thoughts. Back when I actually ran 1E I tended to rule it's possible to gauge the creature's state of mind- angry, lustful, bored, et cetera - by the tone of their "mental voice". Not that PCs used it very often.

In my experience, it suffers from the "Deanna Troi" issue and only reveals surface thoughts that are blatantly obvious from the context of an encounter: the wizard furrows their brow and declares "I sense hostility ahead!" as a rabid troll leaps out of the darkness and starts ripping up the lead fighter.

It's also got a relatively short range (60 feet) so isn't much use for "scouting out" whether there are any creatures ahead of you. The psionic version's range is 50% longer, for what it's worth.

The 2E Player's Handbook description is a bit more elaborate:

 When an ESP spell is used, the caster is able to detect the surface thoughts of any creatures in range—except for those of undead and creatures without minds (as we know them). The ESP is stopped by 2 feet of rock, 2 inches of any metal other than lead, or a thin sheet of lead foil.​

 The wizard employing the spell is able to probe the surface thoughts of one creature per round, getting simple instinctual thoughts from lower order creatures. Probes can continue on the same creature from round to round or can move on to other creatures. The caster can use the spell to help determine if a creature lurks behind a door, for example, but the ESP does not always reveal what sort of creature it is. If used as part of a program of interrogation, an intelligent and wary subject receives an initial saving throw. If successful, the creature successfully resists and the spell reveals no additional information. If the saving throw is failed, the caster may learn additional information, according to the DM's ruling. The creature's Wisdom adjustment applies, as may additional bonuses up to +4, based on the sensitivity of the information sought.​

 The material component of this spell is a copper piece.​

Not entirely sure how that applies to the Slaiyith. I guess they might have ESP telepathy that doesn't include transcending language restriction, and since they can only speak Slaiyith and Valgoss they're can't normally talk with it.

Or maybe they're just mentally incomprehensible to humanoids. There are creatures like that in D&D.

Anyhow, long story short.

AD&D's ESP is pretty much 3E's detect thoughts spell or the read thoughts psionic power.

We could just give the Slaiyith that as a continuous free-to-use ability?

 

[freyar]

I'd be ok with detect thoughts, and I also think we should probably convert your proposed Slaiyith telepathy ability to regular telepathy based on the original (though it's a little vague, I guess). I don't know, the original description is a bit confusing: they have ESP and "can use telepathy at will" but are unaware of PCs as "beneath notice," which doesn't really go along with high degrees of telepathic sensing.

I think my preferred solution is just the telepathy SQ, but I could go with detect thoughts if you want.

 

[Cleon]

I'd be ok with detect thoughts, and I also think we should probably convert your proposed Slaiyith telepathy ability to regular telepathy based on the original (though it's a little vague, I guess). I don't know, the original description is a bit confusing: they have ESP and "can use telepathy at will" but are unaware of PCs as "beneath notice," which doesn't really go along with high degrees of telepathic sensing.

Yeah, it is rather contradictory.

Regular 3E telepathy makes no mention of it allowing the creature to detect or locate a creature, but appears to be a communication-only ability.

Then again, detect thoughts is rather vaguely worded too.

The phrasing of "beneath notice" makes me think the Slaiyith knows that a PC or NPC is there, they just have no interest in opening a dialog with them.

I think my preferred solution is just the telepathy SQ, but I could go with detect thoughts if you want.

Okay, I can go along with that with a mention in the flavour text that they rarely deign to speak to lowly humans, and those they do address are almost always Valgoss hosts.

Shall we use the standard 100 ft. range for the telepathy?

 

[freyar]

Yeah, the regular telepathy 100 ft is good. Then drop the specialized Slaiyith Telepathy and Thoughtsense. Looks good.

Should we work out the spell selection next? Anything else to discuss really?

 

[Cleon]

Yeah, the regular telepathy 100 ft is good. Then drop the specialized Slaiyith Telepathy and Thoughtsense. Looks good.

Updating Slaiyith Working Draft.

Should we work out the spell selection next? Anything else to discuss really?

Sure.

The original AD&D version has:

Typical spell selection (4/3/3/2): 1st—charm person, detect magic, magic missile, shield; 2nd—invisibility, Melf’s acid arrow, web; 3rd—dispel magic, hold person, spectral force; 4th—dimension door, fear​

Do you want to start from scratch or modify the Cleon Special selection that's currently in the Working Draft?

 

[freyar]

Actually, those look fine, though maybe we'll want to revisit them if we change the Spell Focus feat later. (Speaking of feats, I'm inclined to make Eschew Materials a bonus feat.)

Any other special abilities these should have?

 

[Cleon]

Actually, those look fine, though maybe we'll want to revisit them if we change the Spell Focus feat later. (Speaking of feats, I'm inclined to make Eschew Materials a bonus feat.)

Sure we could do that.

We'd need to add another feat as a substitute for bonus Eschew Materials of course, as its 16 Hit Dice give the Slaiyith six regular feats.

Any other special abilities these should have?

Apart from the ones already in the Slaiyith Working Draft?

Can't think of any.

 

[freyar]

Spell Penetration maybe to replace Eschew Materials. It's a little boring but might be helpful for the enchantments. Or Greater Spell Focus.

Also, you want Blind-Fight rather than Blind-Sight in the feats.

Yeah, I meant SAs or SQs beyond what's already there. So, if you're happy with the CR, shall we call these done and work out a psionic version?

 

[Cleon]

Spell Penetration maybe to replace Eschew Materials. It's a little boring but might be helpful for the enchantments. Or Greater Spell Focus.

Without Eschew Materials there's a lot of spells a Slaiyith wouldn't be able to cast as they normally don't carry around component pouches.

Also, you want Blind-Fight rather than Blind-Sight in the feats.

Huh, wonder why I never noticed that before.

Fixed!

Yeah, I meant SAs or SQs beyond what's already there. So, if you're happy with the CR, shall we call these done and work out a psionic version?

If you want a Psionic Version of a regular Slaiyith I'm game, although it doesn't seem essential.

The original adventure makes no mention of Slaiyiths having psionic powers apart from their innate telepathy. Since they use spells and "impart special magical powers to the valgoss" I was assuming their powers were more-or-less standard spellcasting.

I guess the Master Slaiyiths could be powerful psionicists as well as spellcasters going by the description of them interrogating the PCs who apply for a Valgoss Gift:

Those with requests submerge themselves into the black water, but quickly realize that under the surface the obelisk gives a reddish glow that allows them to see— albeit in an unnerving reddish black environment. The encrusted slaiyiths approach the supplicant from all directions and speak mentally through the valgoss, asking the host a barrage of confusing and disturbing question. In the furor of these mental questions, the host must attempt a saving throw vs. paralyzation. Those successful in the saving throw fall unconscious. Those remaining conscious lose a point of Wisdom and then must make another saving throw, with success indicating that they blissfully accept the safety of unconsciousness. A failure again means that the character loses a point of Wisdom. This continues until the character falls unconscious or loses all Wisdom. Those reaching 0 Wisdom have gone insane from the mind-shaking barrage of mental probes and questions. If a character loses Wisdom, but not all of it, it returns at a rate of one point a day.
 When unconscious characters regain consciousness, they find themselves floating face up in the black water. Although they cannot remember asking the slaiyiths for the power that they wished to be granted, they find themselves (or, more correctly, the valgoss) imbued with the ability they sought.​

However, are we going to try statting up Master Slaiyiths? They've got no stats in the original adventure.

 

[freyar]

I think I meant to say that Eschew Materials should be a bonus feat. Or else they could have spell components stached away in the lake.

The psionics bit is just because these and the whole valgoss business just feel psionic. I don't think I'd try to stat up anything about the masters since we don't have anything. We could just mention them in the background as advanced slaiyith.

Speaking of background, any ideas?