Converting monsters from Tales From The Infinite Staircase

[Cleon]

Looks good so far!

I guess we might as well go ahead and finish up the valgoss themselves. Tactics: Valgoss not typically predatory and avoid conflict when possible. When forced to defend themselves, however, they bite and burrow into their opponents.

The "not typically predatory" is odd for a creature that normally only eats algae and swamp slime. Tactics wise, the original has "Even an outright attack probably just induces them to flee underwater or, barring that, fight back to the death. Spells or psionic abilities that allow a body to read the creatures’ minds reveal that while both possess intelligence, neither is even aware of the PCs’ existence. Essentially, *** the characters are beneath notice—not even worth considering."

So maybe…

Valgoss ignore other creatures unless directly interfered with, which prompts them to try to swim away underwater. If a valgoss cannot escape an attacker it fights to the death, biting and burrowing into its opponent.

 

[freyar]

Sure, works for me. I was trying to get at something like that, just not in so many words.

Host description: A human with a lumpy pink arc of flesh across its body. ?

 

[Cleon]

Sure, works for me. I was trying to get at something like that, just not in so many words.

Updating Valgoss Working Draft.

Sure, works for me. I was trying to get at something like that, just not in so many words.

Host description: A human with a lumpy pink arc of flesh across its body. ?

I wouldn't restrict it to a human.

How about:

The creature has a slimy pink band of flesh arcing across their body. The wormlike arc of flesh twitches and squirms occasionally as if it has a life of its own.

 

[freyar]

That'll work --- sufficiently descriptive and just gross enough.

I think all that's left is some background. Any thoughts on that?

 

[Cleon]

I think all that's left is some background. Any thoughts on that?

I'm thinking we should modify the mention of Hanim to give some hint who they are.

i.e. change:

The Hanim have developed a secret process that allows a living creature to form a symbiotic union with a valgoss. The candidate must perform an hour-long ceremony and then enter water populated by valgoss. The Hanim usually accompany this ceremony with incense and the music of hide drums, but this is not necessary for success.

To:

A tribe of humans who call themselves the Hanim have developed a secret process that allows a living creature to form a symbiotic union with a valgoss. The candidate must perform an hour-long ceremony and then enter water populated by valgoss. The Hanim usually accompany this ceremony with incense and the music of hide drums, but this is not necessary for success.

We could make it more generic (see below), but then we'd have to rephrase the "Hanim Gift" part of the Slaiyith Gift section.

At least one tribe of humanoids has developed a secret process that allows a living creature to form a symbiotic union with a valgoss. The candidate must perform an hour-long ceremony and then enter water populated by valgoss. The ceremony is traditionally accompanied by incense and the music of hide drums, but this is not necessary for success.

I think all that's left is some background.

Not quite. We need to set the CR and LA and work out a sample creature - I was assuming we'd do a human for that since it can represent a Hanim character.

Any thoughts on that?

Valgoss are wormlike creatures that live in a demiplane called Maelost, a dismal realm of harsh rocky ridges and abundant swamps in which the aquatic valgoss thrive. They eat slime and algae.

Despite their modest appearance, valgoss are as intelligent as many humanoids. They communicate with each other using hive telepathy and lack any interest or ability to speak to other creatures. Like the mighty tentacled beings called slaiyith who also dwell in Maelost's swamps, valgoss consider humanoids as being unworthy of their attention. Slaiyith greatly respect valgoss for the vital role they play in sustaining the ecosystem of their world and consider creatures who have formed a symbiotic bond with a valgoss as being worthy of their gifts (see Valgoss Symbionts, below).

 

[freyar]

I'll agree with the change for the Hanim text, adn I don't think we need to make it more generic. But I don't think it would be too hard to rephrase the gift section if we are worried about WotC IP.

Flavor looks fine.

For the host, CR+0 and LA+0 seem appropriate, I think. The advantages are not big, and there are compensating disadvantages. I guess I could be persuaded of CR+0 and LA+1 or something.

 

[Cleon]

I'll agree with the change for the Hanim text, adn I don't think we need to make it more generic. But I don't think it would be too hard to rephrase the gift section if we are worried about WotC IP.

It wasn't the IP issue I was worrying about but that when a random person reads the monster entry they likely won't know who the Hanim are and think "What's a hanim? I can't find them in any monster lists!"

Explaining they're humans makes it a lot clearer.

Flavor looks fine.

Updating Valgoss Working Draft.

For the host, CR+0 and LA+0 seem appropriate, I think. The advantages are not big, and there are compensating disadvantages. I guess I could be persuaded of CR+0 and LA+1 or something.

I was instinctively going to suggest the LA +1 version to discourage mini-maxing but having only one of the Gifts work outside Maelost means it isn't worth bothering with. It's like the special equipment drow have that evaporate outside the Underdark - "just for the adventure items".

I could see a character with multiple worms being a higher CR. The Slaiyith's gifts are functionally equivalent to magic items. The physical gifts aren't that great, mostly being equal to the weakest versions of a stat-boosting item (ie a Gift of Dexterity gives the same bonus as a 4,000 gp pair +2 gloves of Dexterity). The magic-boosting ones are based on metamagic rods though, so a spellcaster with the Gift of Empowerment effectively has a 73,000 gp greater metamagic rod of empower.

The Enlarge and Extend gifts match less powerful 24,500 gp rods.

The bigger issue is the worms are equivalent to SLOTLESS magic items so, so a character can benefit from them all simultaneously rather than only be able to wield one at a time like a metamagic rod. that's 224,000 gp-equivalent if you use the SRD "double price for no space limitation" rule, which'll put NPC-type characters well above their wealth by level. Even a 20th level NPC is only supposed to have 200k worth in gear.

The question is how much does the 4 hp per worm cost balance that, especially when it can be partially or entirely offset by a Constitution worm? A 12th level caster with a Con worm plus two magic worms has the same HP as a "wormless" character.

 

[freyar]

Yeah, the symbiosis is pretty valuable, but I'm not sure they really make the characters so much more powerful on their own in terms of CR. We could do something like +1 CR and/or LA per two bonded valgoss. What would you think?

 

[Cleon]

Yeah, the symbiosis is pretty valuable, but I'm not sure they really make the characters so much more powerful on their own in terms of CR. We could do something like +1 CR and/or LA per two bonded valgoss. What would you think?

That might be a bit too steep.

How about:

Challenge Rating: Same as the base creature for a host with one or two valgoss symbionts; as base creature +1 for a host with from three to five valgoss symbionts; or as base creature +2 for a host with six or more valgoss symbionts.

For the LA, I'm tempted to have it start at +1 to discourage PCs from exploiting single symbionts. Maybe:

Level Adjustment #1: Same as the base creature +1 for a host with from one to five valgoss symbionts; or as base creature +2 for a host with six or more valgoss symbionts.

or:

Level Adjustment #2: Same as the base creature +1 for a host with one or two valgoss symbionts; as base creature +2 for a host with from three to five valgoss symbionts; or as base creature +3 for a host with six or more valgoss symbionts.

 

[freyar]

That CR sounds fair.

Hmmm. I'd go with your first LA proposal.

Then I think these are done, right?