Converting monsters from the second edition Monstrous Compendiums
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Shade
Monster Junkie
BOZ said:
Here's what we gave the phanaton:
Prehensile Tail (Ex): A phanaton’s tail allows it to use its tail to manipulate objects. The tail can be used as an extra hand for Multiweapon Fighting and grants a phanaton a +2 competence bonus on grapple checks and Climb checks.
I just checked the monkey, and a few other critters I thought had prehensile tails. Unfortunately, none are described as being able to use the tail as an extra limb. The Climb skill description doesn't really allow for it either. As a DM, I'd allow it, but I'm not sure if we should include it in the conversion.
LegacyKing
First Post
Hope you guys had a great memorial day weekend...
I agree with the LA for class specific - Too bad. Yeah, after that comparison I'd agree the little guys should be LA+2.
Natural Armor -
I think if we agree LA+2 is reasonable then there is no reason to remove the natural armor AC bonus of 1. When I did my own conversion I didn't include natural armor because the write up only had Dex and size (which seemed to make sense to me). WIth NA they can get an extra 1 AC if they take Improved NA. But it doesn't make much difference to me... Keep or remove.
Arrow swarm: Hmm, in the old 2nd edition archers were able to make 2 attacks a round (at first level), so the kercpa making the extra '3rd' attack wasn't all that bad. In the new edition the rules make all weapons one attack to start with... So if we base our details on what the rules of the older version gave then in essence the kercpa were given an extra attack over other comparable archers. I think if you became a specialist (going off memory which is quite hazy) you gained a third shot. So If we made the Arrow Swarm a "lesser version" and only allowed one extra attack that would put it back in the perspective. What do you guys think. Is there a feat that does just an extra attack? Also, would that make much of a difference in the LA situation? Just a thought.
Tail? Yeah, I don't think they need the tail deal as it makes no mention of it in the original write up.
Pantheons: Yeah, I just followed the write up and used the 'Earth Goddess', they have a write up about the kercpa and their deity. Although I can't find anything comparable to use so maybe opening it up to the elven pantheon would be good.
Climb - Yeah, I read that but it does not mention if the movement is restricted to up/down or in any direction. Good to know about the no run speed for climb.
I apologize as I've been out of the loop. Glad to see some debate still going on...
I agree with the LA for class specific - Too bad. Yeah, after that comparison I'd agree the little guys should be LA+2.
Natural Armor -
I think if we agree LA+2 is reasonable then there is no reason to remove the natural armor AC bonus of 1. When I did my own conversion I didn't include natural armor because the write up only had Dex and size (which seemed to make sense to me). WIth NA they can get an extra 1 AC if they take Improved NA. But it doesn't make much difference to me... Keep or remove.
Arrow swarm: Hmm, in the old 2nd edition archers were able to make 2 attacks a round (at first level), so the kercpa making the extra '3rd' attack wasn't all that bad. In the new edition the rules make all weapons one attack to start with... So if we base our details on what the rules of the older version gave then in essence the kercpa were given an extra attack over other comparable archers. I think if you became a specialist (going off memory which is quite hazy) you gained a third shot. So If we made the Arrow Swarm a "lesser version" and only allowed one extra attack that would put it back in the perspective. What do you guys think. Is there a feat that does just an extra attack? Also, would that make much of a difference in the LA situation? Just a thought.
Tail? Yeah, I don't think they need the tail deal as it makes no mention of it in the original write up.
Pantheons: Yeah, I just followed the write up and used the 'Earth Goddess', they have a write up about the kercpa and their deity. Although I can't find anything comparable to use so maybe opening it up to the elven pantheon would be good.
Climb - Yeah, I read that but it does not mention if the movement is restricted to up/down or in any direction. Good to know about the no run speed for climb.
I apologize as I've been out of the loop. Glad to see some debate still going on...
LegacyKing
First Post
Any replies to my last post? Anyone? Shade, Boz? Bueller... Bueller.
Recap - Should we make the Arrow Swarm just an extra shot, instead of three to bring balance to the original write-up? (See original post for explanation)
Natural armor - Keep or lose, the NA is only to get the original AC of the 2nd ed write-up. (I don't think it unbalances the character either way)
Recap - Should we make the Arrow Swarm just an extra shot, instead of three to bring balance to the original write-up? (See original post for explanation)
Natural armor - Keep or lose, the NA is only to get the original AC of the 2nd ed write-up. (I don't think it unbalances the character either way)
Shade
Monster Junkie
Sorry for the slow response. I've been busy up to my eyeballs in other things.
Arrow Swarm: I think it is fine to keep it at two additional attacks. It gives them an interesting racial "edge" to their niche. It could be reduced to one additional attack, but then it is really just a worse version of rapid shot. It wouldn't reduce the LA, though. The only way to get that LA down to 1 would be to seriously nerf the ability score bonuses, and I dont' think that's a good idea.
Natural armor: It makes no difference to me whether it keeps it or not. However, it doesn't make much sense that it would have unusally thick fur. Comparing to other animals, cats and monkeys don't have natural armor, dogs and badgers do. I think squirrels are closer to the first group, but I'm not opposed to the +1 natural armor.
I read the following as indicating side-to-side movement is allowed:
Arrow Swarm: I think it is fine to keep it at two additional attacks. It gives them an interesting racial "edge" to their niche. It could be reduced to one additional attack, but then it is really just a worse version of rapid shot. It wouldn't reduce the LA, though. The only way to get that LA down to 1 would be to seriously nerf the ability score bonuses, and I dont' think that's a good idea.
Natural armor: It makes no difference to me whether it keeps it or not. However, it doesn't make much sense that it would have unusally thick fur. Comparing to other animals, cats and monkeys don't have natural armor, dogs and badgers do. I think squirrels are closer to the first group, but I'm not opposed to the +1 natural armor.
I read the following as indicating side-to-side movement is allowed:
Originally Posted by Climb Skill Description said:
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