Converting monsters from the second edition Monstrous Compendiums

[Mortis]

Yes I would go for Vermin too. There's really nothing unusual about it other than its venom. How should we handle that - it only affects the creatures listed? Or it affects all creatures with the Dragon type or something else?

Size would be Tiny.

Regards
Mortis

 

[Shade]

I think vs. the dragon type would be a good solution.

Also, I think we'll need to stat out the nest leader as a separate creature, as its poison deals more damage. Simply having an advancement range won't cut it. (See knell beetles in MMIII for a similar situation).

 

[Shade]

So, assuming Tiny vermin, we have:

For ability scores, Giant Fire Beetle (size Small) has Str 10, Dex 11, Con 11, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 7.

Reversing the size increase from Tiny to Small gives -4 Str, +2 Dex.

So...Str 6, Dex 13, Con 11, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 7?

Organization: Nest (2-16)?
Environment: Warm deserts and underground?
Advancement: 2 HD (Tiny)?

Lone dragon beetles are not typically aggressive. When confronted, a lone dragon beetle flees unless there is no escape route. Even then, it will not attack. Instead, it lies perfectly still and hisses, refusing to fight even if attacks are launched against it. In groups of two or more, however, dragon beetles become very aggressive. Any creature that comes within 10 feet of a group of beetles will be attacked. If intruders approach a dragon beetle nest, all present beetles swarm to attack, gaining a +1 attack roll bonus and a +1 damage bonus to all successful bites.

Swarmfighting like we gave the illithocytes?

Swarmfighting (Ex): Illithocytes can coordinate melee attacks against a single target and are adept at fighting side by side in close quarters. An illithocyte can occupy the same 5-foot square in combat with any other illithocyte at no penalty. When an illithocyte engages a Medium or larger creature in melee, and at least one other illithocyte threatens the target, it gains a +1 morale bonus on the attack roll. This bonus increases by +1 for each additional illithocyte beyond the first that threatens the same target.

 

[Mortis]

So...Str 6, Dex 13, Con 11, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 7?

Works for me.

Organization: Nest (2-16)?

plus nest leader?

Environment: Warm deserts and underground?
Advancement: 2 HD (Tiny)?

That's fine

Swarmfighting like we gave the illithocytes?

Swarmfighting (Ex): Illithocytes can coordinate melee attacks against a single target and are adept at fighting side by side in close quarters. An illithocyte can occupy the same 5-foot square in combat with any other illithocyte at no penalty. When an illithocyte engages a Medium or larger creature in melee, and at least one other illithocyte threatens the target, it gains a +1 morale bonus on the attack roll. This bonus increases by +1 for each additional illithocyte beyond the first that threatens the same target.

Again, that's fine with me.

Regards
Mortis

 

[BOZ]

I think vs. the dragon type would be a good solution.

absolutely.

Also, I think we'll need to stat out the nest leader as a separate creature, as its poison deals more damage. Simply having an advancement range won't cut it. (See knell beetles in MMIII for a similar situation).

interesting idea! i'll support it. as with the fyrefly swarm, let's do that after statting out the main critter.

So, assuming Tiny vermin, we have:

For ability scores, Giant Fire Beetle (size Small) has Str 10, Dex 11, Con 11, Int ?, Wis 10, Cha 7.

Reversing the size increase from Tiny to Small gives -4 Str, +2 Dex.

So...Str 6, Dex 13, Con 11, Int ?, Wis 10, Cha 7?

Str 6 seems like it might be a bit high for a one-foot long creature... otherwise looks fine. there is also a discrepancy to consider:

INTELLIGENCE: Animal (1)

INTELLIGENCE: Non- (0)

barely intelligent as originally intended, or not at all as revised?

Swarmfighting like we gave the illithocytes?

excellent call! will that ability change given that we are using it for a Tiny creature?

 

[Mortis]

Str 6 seems like it might be a bit high for a one-foot long creature... otherwise looks fine. there is also a discrepancy to consider:

4 or 5 then?

barely intelligent as originally intended, or not at all as revised?

Well, if we stick the Vermin type (which I see no problems with) then it won't have an Intelligence score.

Regards
Mortis

 

[BOZ]

not at all true. Vermin are no longer required to not have an Intelligence score (not that they ever truly were).

 

[Shade]

I'd say go with mindless.

 

[Mortis]

not at all true. Vermin are no longer required to not have an Intelligence score (not that they ever truly were).

Sorry BOZ

I was just going by the SRD entry (emphasis mine).
Of course WotC may have changed their minds one way or the other.

Vermin Type: This type includes insects, arachnids, other arthropods, worms, and similar invertebrates.
Features: Vermin have the following features.
—8-sided Hit Dice.
—Base attack bonus equal to 3/4 total Hit Dice (as cleric).
—Good Fortitude saves.
—Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die, if the vermin has an Intelligence score. However, most vermin are mindless and gain no skill points or feats.
Traits: Vermin possess the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
—Mindless: No Intelligence score, and immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
—Darkvision out to 60 feet.
—Proficient with their natural weapons only.
—Proficient with no armor.
—Vermin breathe, eat, and sleep.

Regards
Mortis

 

[BOZ]

dig a little deeper:

?Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die, if the vermin has an Intelligence score. However, most vermin are mindless and gain no skill points or feats.

but i'll go with shade, simply because it's easier in this case to just go with mindless. Str 4 should work, and puts it on par with a Tiny owl.

speaking of Tiny, does that size affect its Swarmfighting ability?