Converting monsters from the second edition Monstrous Compendiums

[Mortis]

dig a little deeper

Ah! hidden in the Skill Points line.

Actually thinking about it having no Intelligence score and being Mindless is probably better than having a Int of 1.

Regards
Mortis

 

[Shade]

speaking of Tiny, does that size affect its Swarmfighting ability?

Yes...good point. The problem areas are in bold:

Swarmfighting (Ex): Illithocytes can coordinate melee attacks against a single target and are adept at fighting side by side in close quarters. An illithocyte can occupy the same 5-foot square in combat with any other illithocyte at no penalty. When an illithocyte engages a Medium or larger creature in melee, and at least one other illithocyte threatens the target, it gains a +1 morale bonus on the attack roll. This bonus increases by +1 for each additional illithocyte beyond the first that threatens the same target.

From the SRD:

Tiny, Diminutive, and Fine Creatures: Very small creatures take up less than 1 square of space. This means that more than one such creature can fit into a single square. A Tiny creature typically occupies a space only 2-1/2 feet across, so four can fit into a single square. Twenty-five Diminutive creatures or 100 Fine creatures can fit into a single square. Creatures that take up less than 1 square of space typically have a natural reach of 0 feet, meaning they can’t reach into adjacent squares. They must enter an opponent’s square to attack in melee. This provokes an attack of opportunity from the opponent. You can attack into your own square if you need to, so you can attack such creatures normally. Since they have no natural reach, they do not threaten the squares around them. You can move past them without provoking attacks of opportunity. They also can’t flank an enemy.

So, perhaps rewriting like so?

Swarmfighting (Ex): Dragon beetles can coordinate melee attacks against a single target and are adept at fighting side by side in close quarters. Any number of dragon beetles can occupy the same 5-foot square in combat with any other dragon beetles at no penalty. When a dragon beetle engages a Small or larger creature in melee, and at least one other dragon beetle occupies the target's space, it gains a +1 morale bonus on the attack roll. This bonus increases by +1 for each additional dragon beetle beyond the first that threatens the same target.

 

[Mortis]

Swarmfighting (Ex): Dragon beetles can coordinate melee attacks against a single target and are adept at fighting side by side in close quarters. Any number of dragon beetles can occupy the same 5-foot square in combat with any other dragon beetles at no penalty. When a dragon beetle engages a Small or larger creature in melee, and at least one other dragon beetle occupies the target's space, it gains a +1 morale bonus on the attack roll. This bonus increases by +1 for each additional dragon beetle beyond the first that threatens the same target.

I'm not sure about 'Any number'. I think that we should limit it to X number of dragon beetles, but go on to mention the 'swarmed' creature's size so more dragon beetles could swarmfight against a Large creature, more still against a Hugh creature etc. That could actually make them more useful against larger creatures.

Regards
Mortis

 

[BOZ]

that is a good point - i don't think we should expect to be seeing thousands of foot-long beetles in a 5-foot square. i figure we could be just fine using the normal limits, but i wouldn't mind doubling them.

i don't know if it's necessary to mention the creature's size, if you apply a little logic. Four tiny creatures normally fit into a 5-foot square, so then couldn't 4 Tiny creatures attack a Medium opponent? By the same logic, a Colossal creature has a 30-foot space, so since it takes up a total of 36 5-foot squares, could not then 144 Tiny creatures attack it at once? That would be one hell of an attack bonus - damn near any creature would be dead in a round or two (unless it has DR; then it would be fine).

 

[Mortis]

By the same logic, a Colossal creature has a 30-foot space, so since it takes up a total of 36 5-foot squares, could not then 144 Tiny creatures attack it at once?

Obviously, to complicate matters, some of those squares would be inside the Colossal creature's body and not subject to the swarming.

Regards
Mortis

 

[Shade]

We can stick with the usual limit of four...a +4 bonus is pretty sweet for a low-CR critter.

 

[BOZ]

OK, so just the perimeter squares? that's still 80 Tiny creatures.

 

[Shade]

Nope...just inside the target's space...creatures this size don't threaten from adjacent squares.

 

[BOZ]

aaaaiieeee

so just remove that one line then?

Swarmfighting (Ex): Dragon beetles can coordinate melee attacks against a single target and are adept at fighting side by side in close quarters. When a dragon beetle engages a Small or larger creature in melee, and at least one other dragon beetle occupies the target's space, it gains a +1 morale bonus on the attack roll. This bonus increases by +1 for each additional dragon beetle beyond the first that threatens the same target.

 

[Shade]

I think we'll need to change "threatens the same target" to "occupies the same space", since they never threaten.