Converting Planescape monsters

[Cleon]

Let's drop the Fort save.

I agree that seems the way to go, since it's (a) more in keeping with the original, and (b) means we don't have to change the Ash Quasi to match.

Have ability progressions like the Earth elemental?

I'd be tempted to tweak the stats a bit. The original damage (1d8+HD, so 1d8+6-12) is significantly less than the AD&D 2E Earth Elementals 4d8. The average size Salt quasi's 1d8+9 damage has an identical average to 3d8, or a d8 less than the Earth. That's a bit higher than the 11 average damage of an AD&D Water Elemental's 2d10 attack.

Also, the Salt has a marginally higher AC than an AD&D Earth Elemental - AC 1 vs AC 2. Giving it a higher natural armour wouldn't make much sense to me, since I don't think it's be "tougher than rock", which leaves increasing the Dex the obvious solution.

So, how about giving it a lower Strength and higher Dex by averaging a Water Elemental and Earth Elemental's scores in those abilities?

Hmm, doing that exactly doesn't quite work:

Average of Earth & Water

Size	Earth	Water	Salt
Small	Str 17, Dex 8, AC 17	Str 14, Dex 10, AC 17	Str 15 or 16, Dex 9, AC 18?
Medium	Str 21, Dex 8, AC 18	Str 16, Dex 12, AC 19	Str 18 or 19, Dex 10, AC 20?
Large	Str 25, Dex 8, AC 18	Str 20, Dex 14, AC 20	Str 22 or 23, Dex 11, AC 21?
Huge	Str 29, Dex 8, AC 18	Str 24, Dex 18, AC 21	Str 26 or 27, Dex 12, AC 22?
Greater	Str 31, Dex 8, AC 20	Str 26, Dex 20, AC 22	Str 28 or 29, Dex 14, AC 23?
Elder	Str 33, Dex 8, AC 22	Str 28, Dex 22, AC 23	Str 30 or 31, Dex 15, AC 24?
Monolith	Str 43, Dex 6, AC 25	Str 38, Dex 22, AC 27	Str 40 or 41, Dex 14, AC 28?

But it does suggests that giving it a Water Elemental's Strength +2, a slighty lower Dexterity and a natural armour equal to or slightly lower than an Earth Elemental's natural armour might be the way to go.

i.e.:

Proposed Salt Elemental.

Size	Salt
Small	Str 16, Dex 10, natural armor +7, AC 18
Medium	Str 18, Dex 12, natural armor +9, AC 20
Large	Str 22, Dex 14, natural armor +10, AC 21
Huge	Str 26, Dex 16, natural armor +11, AC 22
Greater	Str 28, Dex 16, natural armor +12, AC 23
Elder	Str 30, Dex 16, natural armor +13, AC 24
Monolith	Str 40, Dex 14, natural armor +20, AC 28

What do you think?

 

[freyar]

I'm happy enough with your proposal. Update away!

 

[Cleon]

I'm happy enough with your proposal. Update away!

I can't quite face that wall of text at the moment. I'll update it later when I'm feeling more energetic.

 

[freyar]

I can't quite face that wall of text at the moment. I'll update it later when I'm feeling more energetic.

Maybe when you're back from your vacation.

 

[Cleon]

Maybe when you're back from your vacation.

I'm back!

Well, I got back on Tuesday but needed a bit of vacation to recover from my vacation...

Updating Salt Quasi-Elemental Working Draft.

 

[Cleon]

Updating Salt Quasi-Elemental Working Draft.

Hold on, I shouldn't have removed the red text's immunity to fire since the original monster text says "They’re also immune to fire".

I'll revise the Salt Quasi-Elemental Working Draft.

It also says they're killed by immersion in water, so should we give them some kind of susceptibility to water or just fold that into Death Throes?

 

[freyar]

I think we can just add it as another trigger to Death Throes. Agreed?

 

[Cleon]

I think we can just add it as another trigger to Death Throes. Agreed?

I'd be concerned about the DM forgetting it dies when immersed if the trait is buried in a SQ. It'd seem clearer to have them separate.

Although, come to think of it, the original only had explosive death throes if it died by being "overloaded" with water (e.g. by immersion).

Hmm, when we did the Ash Quasi's very similar ability we gave it standard "vulnerability to fire" and the following Death Throes:

Death Throes (Su): When an ash quasi-elemental dies in above-freezing temperatures (which always occurs if it is slain by fire damage), it explodes in a burst of cold damage as detailed in the table below. A successful Reflex save halves the damage.


I think giving the Salt Quasi some kind of "vulnerability to water" trait plus a tweaked version of the above Death Throes is my preferred solution.

Something like:

Death Throes (Su): When a salt quasi-elemental dies in humid conditions (which always occurs if it is slain by a water-based attack), it explodes in a burst of jagged lumps of salt that does bludgeoning damage as detailed in the table below. A successful Reflex save halves the damage.

Susceptibility to Water (Ex): A salt quasi-elemental takes half again as much damage (+50%) when injured by a water-based attack. In addition, if a salt quasi-elemental enters a body of water its own size or larger, it must succeed at a DC 20 Constitution check at the end of each round it is immersed or it explodes, dying in a burst of salt shards. See Death Throes for the effects of this explosion.

 

[freyar]

The parallel is compelling. I'll go along with that.

Looking back at the original monster, "Using their large, dense fists, salt quasielementals can smack their foes and cause 1d8 points of damage plus 1 additional point per Hit Die (6, 9, or 12)." Is that trying to imply that the slams also do a bit of dessication damage?

 

[Cleon]

The parallel is compelling. I'll go along with that.

Updating Salt Quasi-Elemental Working Draft.

Looking back at the original monster, "Using their large, dense fists, salt quasielementals can smack their foes and cause 1d8 points of damage plus 1 additional point per Hit Die (6, 9, or 12)." Is that trying to imply that the slams also do a bit of dessication damage?

Well all the Quasielementals have a damage bonus that matches their Hit Dice, and none of the original descriptions explains where it comes from.

If it was some sort of special effect you'd think that the author(s) would say so in at least one of the monster's entries, so I think it's more likely meant to represent the higher-HD quasielementals being stronger than the smaller ones.

Much like an AD&D Barghest, which also has a damage bonus equal to its HD, but at least in that case they specified it was due to them gaining size and strength with HD (from Str 18/00 for a 6+6 HD barghest to Str 24 for a 12+12 HD one).