Converting "Real World" Animals and Vermin

[Shade]

Sounds good.

SPECIAL DEFENSES: Withdraw into lair

The Nereis constructs mucous tubes in debris or loose sand and mud, from which it moves to capture prey. If threatened, the Nereis attempts to withdraw deep into its tube, becoming impossible to hit; otherwise, it attempts to swim away.

Do anything with that other than flavor text?

Environment: Any aquatic?

Organization: Solitary or x (2-12)

x= Colony?

Challenge Rating: x

Advancement: x

 

[freyar]

Sounds like combat tactics to me.

CR 1/4 or maybe 1/2?

I feel like this next will set some kind of precedent for these worms.
Advancement: 2 HD (Medium), 3-5 HD (Large)?

 

[Cleon]

So...

Split (Ex): A critical hit with a slashing weapon deals no damage to a nereis. Instead the worm splits into two identical worms, each with half of the original’s current hit points (round down). A nereis with 1 hit point or less cannot be further split and suffers damage normally.

Sorry for being late on the Split issue, but I have a couple of problems with this.

Firstly, real-life worms that can survive being bisected do still take damage from it, they just heal up. Thus, I'd suggest the worm takes regular damage from the slashing weapon (i.e. no chance of critical confirmation), and the remainder are divided between the two halves.

Secondly, surely only the front half of the worm would have jaws when its cut in half, so how does the back half attack? I'd suggest the back-half of the worm needs X rounds (X=3? X=1d4+2?) to grow itself a new head and set of jaws before it can attack.

 

[Cleon]

Sounds like combat tactics to me.

CR 1/4 or maybe 1/2?

Yes, it's not exactly deadly. 1/4 seems a bit low. How about going for the middle and saying 1/3?

I feel like this next will set some kind of precedent for these worms.
Advancement: 2 HD (Medium), 3-5 HD (Large)?

Well, most of the SRD wormish creatures (Purple Worm, Remorhaz) max out to 3 times the base specimens Hit Dice, but 1-3HD seems a bit low.

The Dragon magazine version we're converting is 1 to 4 Hit Dice, which suggests Advancement: 2 HD (Medium); 3-4 HD (Large).

Upon reflection, I'd prefer its Advancement covered several steps in size, since such worms can vary greatly in dimensions in real life.

How about 2HD (M), 3-4 (L), 5-8 (H)?

That would make the largest specimens 40' monsters able to swallow a man whole, but still a size-step smaller than a Purple Worm.

 

[freyar]

Sorry for being late on the Split issue, but I have a couple of problems with this.

Firstly, real-life worms that can survive being bisected do still take damage from it, they just heal up. Thus, I'd suggest the worm takes regular damage from the slashing weapon (i.e. no chance of critical confirmation), and the remainder are divided between the two halves.

Secondly, surely only the front half of the worm would have jaws when its cut in half, so how does the back half attack? I'd suggest the back-half of the worm needs X rounds (X=3? X=1d4+2?) to grow itself a new head and set of jaws before it can attack.

The problem with it taking damage on the split is that the worm has so few hp in the first place. Dividing the hp at least reduces the hp of the individual parts. But, yeah, I don't know a good solution for this.

I could get on board with a regrowth time, but we should specify that the back half runs away until it grows a head.

Yes, it's not exactly deadly. 1/4 seems a bit low. How about going for the middle and saying 1/3?

1/3 sounds ok.

Well, most of the SRD wormish creatures (Purple Worm, Remorhaz) max out to 3 times the base specimens Hit Dice, but 1-3HD seems a bit low.

The Dragon magazine version we're converting is 1 to 4 Hit Dice, which suggests Advancement: 2 HD (Medium); 3-4 HD (Large).

Upon reflection, I'd prefer its Advancement covered several steps in size, since such worms can vary greatly in dimensions in real life.

How about 2HD (M), 3-4 (L), 5-8 (H)?

That would make the largest specimens 40' monsters able to swallow a man whole, but still a size-step smaller than a Purple Worm.

Well, I was wondering if some of the other worms in this series started out larger. Perhaps Shade can tell us --- if there are larger ones, I don't see a need to let this one get too big, since there will be other worms to use.

 

[Cleon]

The problem with it taking damage on the split is that the worm has so few hp in the first place. Dividing the hp at least reduces the hp of the individual parts. But, yeah, I don't know a good solution for this.

Yes, I realized the low hp would be an issue. What alternatives are there? It could have a chance of splitting whenever it takes slashing damage more than its HD. (say if it rolls under the slashing damage on d8s equal to its HD, or if it fails a fort save of X+damage) That seems a bit too exception-based though.

I could get on board with a regrowth time, but we should specify that the back half runs away until it grows a head.

Good idea, it'd likely burrow underground to heal up.

Well, I was wondering if some of the other worms in this series started out larger. Perhaps Shade can tell us --- if there are larger ones, I don't see a need to let this one get too big, since there will be other worms to use.

No need to wait, I've got that issue of Dragon so just need to pull it up...

Here we go, the Dragon's Bestiary includes the following worms:

Nereis: 1-4 HD, L (1-2' diameter; 5-10' long)
Diopatra: 2-10 HD, L (2-4' diameter; 12-25' long)
Eunice: 2-16 HD, stats as Diopatra
Lumbrineris: 2-10 HD, (1-3' diameter; 20-30' long) stats as Diopatra
Vanadis: 2-8 HD, L (1½-3' diameter; 10-20' long)
Eurythoe: 2-8 HD, L (2-4' diameter; 5-7' long)
Glycera: 2-8 HD, L (2-3' diameter, 10-20' long)
Sabella: 2-4 HD, M (1-3' diameter, 5-7' long)
Terebella: 3-10 HD, L (5' body with 40' tentacles)
Pectinaria: 2-5 HD, M (5' long cone, 2-2.5' wide at mouth)

Vanadis is the only other worm listed that swallows its prey whole like Nereis, but it doesn't bite them but sucks them in with an evertible proboscis.

So the HD Advancement ranges from eight-fold (for Eunice) to two-fold (for Sabella), with median and mean of four-fold (four of the worms are 1-4 or 2-8 HD, add up the HD ratios and divide by #worms = 4.1333)

 

[freyar]

Let's let Shade and demiurge vote on the Split.

I say we go to 4 or maybe 6 times HD and let each advance by a step, starting each at it's upper length range. That lets Nereis be Medium or Large and Vanadis be possibly Huge or Gargantuan (going to have to increase those HD, though, I think!). But I don't have a big objection to more advancement for any or all of these, if that's the consensus.

Terebella sure has exceptional reach!

 

[Shade]

I vote no damage on the split (although unrealistic, it works much better mechanically), but agree with the regrowth period.

I like the greater range of advancement, too.

 

[demiurge1138]

I'm alright with the split attack doing damage, but the question becomes one of accounting. Which half takes the damage? This makes things rather more complicated and doesn't make things more fun, which is our goal here. Deals regular damage, then the remaining hit points are split among the two halves works, but I'd rather just let the splitting attack deal no damage, realism be damned.

 

[Cleon]

Let's let Shade and demiurge vote on the Split.

Well it looks like they've spoken, so we may as well stick with it as written.

I say we go to 4 or maybe 6 times HD and let each advance by a step, starting each at it's upper length range. That lets Nereis be Medium or Large and Vanadis be possibly Huge or Gargantuan (going to have to increase those HD, though, I think!). But I don't have a big objection to more advancement for any or all of these, if that's the consensus.

Terebella sure has exceptional reach!

Well Vanadis is a lot, ah, stretchier than Nereis in how it swallows prey, so I think it's probably Large to Huge-sized and can manage victims one size smaller than itself. Of the others, Eunice is the only one that looks like a candidate for Gargantuan size in its larger forms.

Hmm, how did all those ’' get where I put ' in my previous post? Must be a copy-and-paste problem. I think I'll edit it to cut them out, just to make it prettier.