Converting "Real World" Animals and Vermin

[freyar]

Let's just go with a 10 ft cube ink cloud, like the regular octopus and original text.

I'd say 2hp per tentacle, does no damage to the actual deepdweller.

1d10 is ok, and so is 1d8. The original was 1d2 per tentacle attached, so it could go either way.

 

[Cleon]

Stick with 2 hp to sever a tentacle, like the original text?

I think I'd increase it to 4 or 5 hit points, since a giant squid and gant octopus both have 10 hp tentacles.

Suggested constrict damage? The giant octopi has an odd amount, based on its other attacks. Downsizing that yields 1d10+Str.

Well its tentacles are 2 damage steps lower than a giant octopus's (1d4 vs 1d2), which suggests its Constrict should be 2 steps down as well.

Hmmm, I think I'd just have its Constrict do tentacle damage, like a giant squid.

 

[demiurge1138]

I like the weak tentacle attacks and constrict.

 

[Shade]

So 2 hp/tentacle, but no damage to the octopus, and constrict damage equals 1d2+1?

 

[freyar]

So 2 hp/tentacle, but no damage to the octopus,

Either this, or I guess we could do 4 hp/tentacle with 2 to the octopus, as Cleon suggests.

and constrict damage equals 1d2+1?

I kind of like 1d6 (two steps down from giant octopus, like the tentacle). The original text suggests it should often get more than 1d2.

 

[demiurge1138]

Giving it some thought, I'm alright with the 1d6 constriction.

 

[Cleon]

I'd be fine with that so long as it isn't per tentacle like the AD&D version of cephalopods of unusual size. That would add up to a lot of damage once the octopus gets a few arms around its victim!

Giving it some thought, I'm alright with the 1d6 constriction.

 

[freyar]

My thought is that 1d6 would just be the constrict value, as a reasonable average over numbers of tentacles from the earlier version.

 

[Cleon]

My thought is that 1d6 would just be the constrict value, as a reasonable average over numbers of tentacles from the earlier version.

Well if we add the Strength bonus that's 1d6+1, which is less than the average damage of two tentacle hits at 1d2+1 (4.5 versus 5). If the Deepwater Octopus hits with all eight tentacles it would do an average of 20 damage.

If we want to keep it close to the original tentacle constrict, we'd need to either bump up the damage or have it Constrict per tentacle.

Perhaps we're going about this the wrong way. The SRD Octopus does not have multiple tentacle attacks like their giant versions, just a single attack with its arms. The SRD Squid does the same, and that's Medium sized like the Deepwater Octopus. We could just give it a single "Arms" attack with its tentacles in the same fashion.

Alternatively, we could give it three primary attacks with tentacle (1d2+1) or weapon (shortspear for 1d6+1?), and give it Constrict damage of around the average damage (7.5) of three tentacle strikes - say 1d10+2 (1d10 plus double Strength bonus)? That also more-or-less matches up if the Deepwater Octopus is advanced to Large size, with three tentacles for 1d3+5 (average 21 damage) versus 2d8+10 Constrict (average 19 damage).

EDIT: I have a feeling the debate over this is going to be as long as that over Houyhnhnm Hoof damage.

 

[freyar]

The original only had 6 tentacles (should we change that in our writeup?) presumably to keep the other two free for manipulating things and didn't get a Str bonus. Taking 1d6 tentacles at 1d2 each gives an average constrict damage of 3.5*1.5=5.25. 1d6+1 gives an average of 4.5, which isn't that far off. And that's assuming that you get lots of tentacles attached as much as just 1 or 2. I just don't think we should compare constrict by adding in Str for each tentacle, since that's not how constrict generally works in 3.X. We've done some exceptional constricts in the past, I think, but those were for more exceptional monsters, too.

I do think we should add the shortspear to the attack line as a possibility.