Converting Rifts over to Dragonstar setting?

[Crothian]

Well i wouldn't dream of disputing this i have never met or spoken to either of them myself, but being nice people really doesn't change the fact they are just plain stubbornly refusing to listen to their own fans feedback by informing them their system is just plain out of date, unbalanced and completely broken.... it may have been fine years ago, but as with anything the competition improves and so do the standards players and GM's alike expect...and system-wise RIFTS doesn;t even remotely cut it.

This is not to say Palladium are a bad company or the founders and management bad people.. No No... i'm sure just the opposite is true, but they need to wake up and smell the roses. They have some of the best ideas and Art in any game company as far as i'm concerned, but their system doesn;t support the great ideas and creativity behind them... and them digging thier heels in and refusing to see this does nothing to help how people see thier games or themselves.

Well, that is of course your opinion, but I would note that Rifts is still very populiar and is one of the best selling games out there. Many, many people still play the system and have no problems with it. I'm not sure how a system gets out of date. If the system worked in 1990, why wouldn't it work now? Their system isn't perfect, of course, but I still find it easy to use.

 

[Neo]

Well, that is of course your opinion, but I would note that Rifts is still very populiar and is one of the best selling games out there. Many, many people still play the system and have no problems with it. I'm not sure how a system gets out of date. If the system worked in 1990, why wouldn't it work now? Their system isn't perfect, of course, but I still find it easy to use.

Indeed all anyone is airing is their own opinion, as i say the ideas and inspiration behind Palladiums games i still to this day believe are some of the best, and were enought to make me buy all the Robotech, TMNT books, most of the Rifts and some of the Palladium fantasy.... but i've GM'ed for 22 years now and IMO the system is just plain bust. sure it's simple to use, but that doesn;t mean it works. The OCC's and RCCs are unbalanced, the SDC and MDC divide just doesn't work, skills as a % is fine but really simplistic, and the emphasis for most of them seems to be firmly ensconced in pushing a mecha based game as opposed to a character level one. By this i mean in almost any encounter the guy on foot enouncters the Guy in Robot PA, or in a Mecha or Robot vehicle.... he's toast pure and simple , which sure may be realistic, but it encourages folks not to ever want to leave the damn things , also some of the PA's etc aren't balanced like the Glitterboys ... where other systems evolve based on players comments and feedback and develop into better more workable systems a la "3e", Palladiums system is now exactly whats it's always been..... and that as i say IMO is broken, which is a shame as, if their game was to work i'd have been running it for years as my Alternate game.

My own group and me have tried Robotech and Rifts several times but we just all keep coming to the same conclusion it doesn't work, the problems are to major to ignore, and we go back to something less inspiring but more functional. some might say well make it work write some house rules.... but then what am i paying Palladium for? you know.. House rules and additions as far as i'm concerned are things that add to already good systems, they aren;t "Fixes" which is what they would be for Palladium, which like i said before is a real shame.

But as you point out many still do play Rifts etc.. and are quite happy with the system, and great... and if palladium are happy with not making any changes and keeping a smaller audience than they're capable of then fine again... but it's hardly good business sense, their ARE many more people out here who would play ro go back to Rifts etc.. if they had a "Fixed" system.

 

[sfgiants]

I agree with all the above information. Great setting, excellent art, and even decent production values (i.e. the books are quality). However, the system needs a very creative and hard working gm. The rules only cover certain situations and the gm needs to rule regularily on issues that have not and will not be covered in books. While this can be great, my group had over 12 pages of houserules. That is ridiculous. To make matters worse new rules are peppered throughout new books. Want the rules for survival in the cold, turn to this book, want the rules for vehicle combat turn to another book etc. This is a hassle and shows that the rule set is simply tacked on where needed. Not what you need for a good and useable system. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Crothian]

Here's a more general question: Why are people so interested in converting all these games to d20? Not just rifts, I've seen many people talk about many games both old and new. I've never seen so many people trying to convert so many different games to one system and I'm curious why?

 

[Heap Thaumaturgist]

I think it's an ease of use. Any game "system" is just a system for determining the success or failure of an action based on an adjusted "random-number" generated by dice. D20 isn't ground breaking by any means, but the makers realized the fundamental truth at the base of the game system and tried their best to make all resolution within the game work on the same principle.

It makes D20 very easy to learn and makes D20 very easy to "convert" things to. And, very importantly, it doesn't confuse anybody, be they long term RPGers or new people.

I was able to teach 3E D&D to a brand new Joe Off The Street guy in under twenty minutes. By the time I worked through his character sheet, showing him what I was doing, he had the mechanic down cold and could logically extrapolate out from that mechanic what would be required, dice-wise, for any other action taken in-game.

I think it has something to do with having approached D20 from the POV of programmers and professional project managers. Business people, on the whole. Makes for a more elegant system. Especially when they then say: "These rules, use them, make new things with them. And, when you're done, SELL those things." It encourages people to play with it, even if they never intend to sell it. They have no fear of lawyers and the like breathing down their necks.

So you get a very simple, usable system that alot of people are familiar with, and WANT to be familiar with, and if they're not you can teach them the system in twenty minutes. Then you're given open season to play with conversions and new rules untill your heart's content. So people do. And then if you say: "Hey, anybody interested in playing giant robots?" and they say yea, you don't have to haul out a new "system" of dice for what is fundamentally the same exact action as the last "system" you just say how things are going to work with the same mechanic and keep rolling right along.

--HT

 

[Dartnet X]

For the same reason fans of Gups do it.
Alot of us like the game world but hate the system that the world is attached to (7th Sea). Also it's some times it's better to convert to a system that the group knows than to teach a new one to everyone (Castle Falkenstine).

Dartnet X

Here's a more general question: Why are people so interested in converting all these games to d20? Not just rifts, I've seen many people talk about many games both old and new. I've never seen so many people trying to convert so many different games to one system and I'm curious why?

 

[Neo]

Here's a more general question: Why are people so interested in converting all these games to d20? Not just rifts, I've seen many people talk about many games both old and new. I've never seen so many people trying to convert so many different games to one system and I'm curious why?

As i mentioned previously, for myself i don;t mind one way or the other if Rifts becomes D20 or not..... i'd be just as happy if they fixed their own system. But the point is, it "DOES" need fixing and Palladium simply seem to refuse to see this.. and if they don;t listen to those of us who have bought and tried their games, and would like to buy more "If only....." then what can we do... we don;t buy their games, they don;t make as much money. Their attitude is self destructive.

 

[Brutorz Bill]

I have to agree with Neo, I've bought most of Palladium's books over the years for the same reasons he listed, but its gotten to the point where I just can't "stomach" the System anymore. We've tried to "go back" and play Rifts many times but every time we roll our eyes and ask the question "Why are we playing this system again?".. then we go back to D&D or some such. Mind you, I love the Rifts setting! Psi-Stalkers, Dog-boys, the mix of tech and magic kick some serious butt! but Mega-Damage gives me a migraine, and the combat system...Yuck!
All I'm asking is for Palladium to do a Rifts to d20 Conversion book and just see what happens, I'm certain it would sell Very well. How they see that this would cause them to lose their "baby" is nuts to me, sounds like they need to consult with another lawyer...
Just my 2 cents.

 

[BigLEE]

Why can't you post a conversion...

You've got two options to post a conversion.

Find an offshore web server. You just need to find a host in a country that doesn't enforce international copyright laws. Admittedly, giving your credit card number to the Russian Mafia is risky.

Create a post-apocalypse setting of your own. There's nothing particularly original about the Rifts setting. Magical-Post Apocalyptic setting are common in literature, and at least one or two RPGs were published before Rifts, with a similar setting.

For example, you don't have to call them deadboys. DBs are just pretty blatant stormtrooper rip-offs anyway. They don't have to come from the Coalition, they could come from the Mason-Dixon Dominion, or some other silly name. Power armor and robots are certainly not unique, and I'm pretty sure you can find juicer and crazy analogues in Science Fiction Literature.

Just create a similar world, juggling countries around and using more generic names, then attribute your influences to such books and movies as Damnation Alley, the Shanara books, Planet of the Apes, etc.

On the flip side, the writing comING out of Palladium recently has been extremely mediocre. I'm not sure that Rifts is worth the trouble anymore.

Just my $.02.

 

[Steve Conan Trustrum]

Re: Why can't you post a conversion...

On the flip side, the writing comING out of Palladium recently has been extremely mediocre. I'm not sure that Rifts is worth the trouble anymore.

Just my $.02.

One of their biggest writing talents, Bill Coffin, announced yesterday that he is leaving Palladium Books next month.