Spelljammer Converting Spelljammer creatures

[Cleon]

Well that's at least 2 out of 3, so I'll update the Noble Gossamer Working Draft with that.

Okay, that's done.

It looks like the next thing we have to decide is a natural armour bonus.

The original monster had AC 4, giving it the exact match in 3E terms (AC 16) would require +28 natural armour. In some ways that seems incredibly high for a creature made of jelly and vacuum, but it is also gives it a pathetic AC for its HD and likely CR - nothing that can threaten it is likely to miss that AC, least of all a Gammaroid with its +125 attacks.

So, is +28 NA enough, or would you like to increase it a little? Or a lot?

 

[freyar]

Pre-3e ACs are pretty understated in 3e terms. Just looking at the gammaroid, the original monster had AC -2/-10, which we converted to AC 60 or 80 with Retract, plus fortification and DR. So I think we need to increase the total Noble Gossamer AC quite a bit, though I wouldn't go all the way to the gammaroid's AC 60. I guess I'd aim for AC in the 40-45 range (just guessing due to the fact that the CR is probably going to be less than the gammaroid, even with the many attacks). If we're not comfortable making the NA that high, we could say that the electrical currents in the gossamer generate a deflection bonus.

 

[Cleon]

Pre-3e ACs are pretty understated in 3e terms. Just looking at the gammaroid, the original monster had AC -2/-10, which we converted to AC 60 or 80 with Retract, plus fortification and DR. So I think we need to increase the total Noble Gossamer AC quite a bit, though I wouldn't go all the way to the gammaroid's AC 60. I guess I'd aim for AC in the 40-45 range (just guessing due to the fact that the CR is probably going to be less than the gammaroid, even with the many attacks). If we're not comfortable making the NA that high, we could say that the electrical currents in the gossamer generate a deflection bonus.

We'd need a NA bonus of +50 or more to give it an Armor Class in that range. That seems rather high for such a low-density monster.

 

[Arnwyn]

What are other options? If the creature has a lower AC, is there anything that can compensate (DR x/-, etc)?

Or can it be explained that its body is "yielding" (soft, pulpy, etc.) that explains a high AC? (Though I'm not sure how that might jive with 3e conventions...)

(I do like freyar's idea of "electrical currents in the gossamer generate a deflection bonus". I'd be totally okay with that.)

 

[freyar]

DR can compensate a bit. In fact, DR based on damage type makes some sense compared to oozes, but it's not going to make a difference at this CR level. It would have to be DR X/-, and there'd probably have to be a fair amount. But we'd want some internal justification for that also, I think.

 

[Cleon]

DR can compensate a bit. In fact, DR based on damage type makes some sense compared to oozes, but it's not going to make a difference at this CR level. It would have to be DR X/-, and there'd probably have to be a fair amount. But we'd want some internal justification for that also, I think.

I'm inclined to give it a low AC, if only to give a mid-level crew of a spelljammer a chance to fight the thing off long enough to flee. If it has an AC of 40-45 like Freyat suggests they probably wouldn't even be able to hit it.

I'd prefer something a lot closer to the original's equivalent to AC 16.

Also, shouldn't we give the thing cuttable tentacles? It ought to be possible to Sunder them - they are 500 feet long after all!

 

[freyar]

I'm inclined to give it a low AC, if only to give a mid-level crew of a spelljammer a chance to fight the thing off long enough to flee. If it has an AC of 40-45 like Freyat suggests they probably wouldn't even be able to hit it.

I'd prefer something a lot closer to the original's equivalent to AC 16.

That's just not how the precedent goes, though. And, by that logic, shouldn't we reduce the AC on the gammaroid closer to the original AC 22 (in 3e terms)? Besides, I kind of think a 120-250 ft giant space jellyfish ought to be a moderately epic encounter. A mid-level crew surviving this should be a matter of great cleverness.

Also, shouldn't we give the thing cuttable tentacles? It ought to be possible to Sunder them - they are 500 feet long after all!

That's a good point, and I agree, especially given the original gammaroid's (somewhat questionable) tactics. They probably ought to be tough, though.

 

[Cleon]

That's just not how the precedent goes, though. And, by that logic, shouldn't we reduce the AC on the gammaroid closer to the original AC 22 (in 3e terms)? Besides, I kind of think a 120-250 ft giant space jellyfish ought to be a moderately epic encounter. A mid-level crew surviving this should be a matter of great cleverness.

Well I wasn't so bothered with the Gammaroid, since they're very rare and less likely to be interested in attacking ships.

It's partially just that it'd seem funny to give a mostly-vacuum creature a really high NA bonus, but I'd be more comfortable with it if some (or much) of the AC comes from a deflection bonus.

Maybe we should start by agreeing on an AC and then argue as to what armour bonuses to use to achieve it?

That's a good point, and I agree, especially given the original gammaroid's (somewhat questionable) tactics. They probably ought to be tough, though.

They don't need to be tough. A gossamer has hundreds of tentacles, so it can easily afford to lose a few. Also, if we make the tentacles relatively fragile (e.g. low-ish HP and AC) then the aforementioned non-epic spelljammer crew could conceivably be able to cut their ship free and flee and still have the body of the Gossamer be tough enough it needs a more "Epic" opponent to destroy.

 

[freyar]

It's not just the gammaroid, though, it's a whole lot of similar monsters. Anyway, like I say, I'd be inclined to go with AC in the 40-45 range. Or else some other very significant defensive ability. I think we gave some tumbleweed-like creatures an ability called Airy (ie, a miss chance) that might work here.

Well, there are 20 effective tentacles. How about giving the tentacles low AC but a reasonable number of hp?

 

[Cleon]

It's not just the gammaroid, though, it's a whole lot of similar monsters. Anyway, like I say, I'd be inclined to go with AC in the 40-45 range. Or else some other very significant defensive ability. I think we gave some tumbleweed-like creatures an ability called Airy (ie, a miss chance) that might work here.

With some difficulty, I think I've found the creature you are referring to - the Plague Brush from Monster Manual III.

Airy (Ex): Since a plague brush is constantly turning over and its anatomy is made up of a (relatively) small amount of plant matter and lots of empty space, it is difficult to know where to attack the creature. Any melee or ranged attack with a piercing weapon directed at a plague brush has a 20% miss chance. The blow or missile may pass through the creature’s body without harming it. Even a true seeing effect is useless for determining where and how to strike the creature.

Hmm, the Plague Brush has a few similarities with the monster we're converting. It's also a Colossal creature that's mostly empty space with a lot of Hit Dice (31 HD, to be precise) and a potent poison (doing 2d6 Str & 1d4 Con/2d6 Str & 1d4 Con).

I can't help noticing that the Plague Brush has "only" AC 21, nowhere near the 40-plus you're gunning for.

Still, I think giving it the Airy quality is a good solution. We'll need to modify it, since the original only protects against piercing attacks. I might even consider increasing the miss chance to 50%, since Gossamers are mostly vacuum.

Would you be OK with an Armour Class around the mid-20s if we gave it the Airy special quality?

Well, there are 20 effective tentacles. How about giving the tentacles low AC but a reasonable number of hp?

Sure, although I have a suspicion we'll have different ideas of "reasonable".