D&D 2E Converting the old 2E bard kits?

[Crothian]

I don't have a problem with the Bard, but there should be a core class that is a jack of all trades without the music. With the music, the Bard becomes more of a performer then an explorer. I'm currently playing a standard bard and I love it.

 

[DreamChaser]

I think that the "jack-of-all-trades" style can be created by using the multiclass rules. Take a few levels in figher, rogue, sorcerer, and (maybe) cleric. Keep them relatively even (which keeps up with the "master of none" aspect and you've got yourself an all round adventurer.

 

[Crothian]

Ya, multi classing will give you a jack of all trades, but I think that's too much. With this Adventurer type class you have an obvious focus even though the purpose of the class is well balanced. But the class doesn't need sneak attack, a buncvh of low level cleric and mage spells, and the ability to turn undead.

 

[Archimago]

How about this...

For my homebrew I majorly changed the classes, including the bard. I was thinking that with a few modifications (mostly to names) I can create pretty much what you're looking for FoxWander.

Adventurer
HD: d6
Saves (F/R/W): Poor/Good/Good
BAB: Medium
Armour Pro: Light, Shields
Weapon Pro: All Simple plus 1 Martial
Skills: 6+int
Skill List: As PHB
Spell Progression as Bard
Spell List as Wizard
Spontaneous Casting w/ Spell Known list of Bard
Spontaneous Casting w/ limited spells known (use lesser spell progression chart for spells known)
L1 Worldly Knowledge, Adventurer's Casting Technique, Adventuring Spirit (Inspire Courage)
L2 Adventuring Spirit (Fascinate)
L4 Adventuring Spirit (Inspire Competence)
L6 Adventuring Spirit (Suggestion)
L8 Adventuring Spirit (Defensive Posture)
L10 Adventuring Spirit (Aggressive Aspect)
L12 Adventuring Spirit (Inspire Greatness)
L14 Adventuring Spirit (Counterspirit)
L16 Adventuring Spirit (Inspire Resolve)
L18 Adventuring Spirit (Compulsion)
L20 Adventuring Spirit (Aura of Spell-Resistance)
Worldly Knowledge– Add (Adventurer Level/2) to all knowledge checks
Adventuring Spirit – The adventurer is adept at gaining any advantage they can, their daring spirit is so powerful it can create supernatural affects when they concentrate; can perform once per level per day. Adventurer activates these auras simply by concentrating, only one may be active at a time, and no sound is produced by the adventurer nor instruments, etc. required.
Adventuring Spirit- Affect
Inspire Courage - As PHB
Fascinate - As PHB
Inspire Competence - As PHB
Suggestion - As PHB
Defensive Posture - Add Cha to AC for 10 rounds or till stop
Aggressive Aspect - Add Cha to Hit for 10 rounds or till stop
Suggestion - As PHB
Inspire Greatness - As PHB, except gain +2 damage as well
Counterspirit - Adventurer may attempt a counterspell dispel magic but at half the Adventurer’s caster level; if successful only area of 30ft radius around adventurer is considered countered (ie. outside this area a fireball would still have affect, even if the epicentre was within the radius of the counterspirit)
Inspire Resolve - Allies with 30ft may use Adventurer’s Perform score as their saving throw against any mind-affecting effect
Compulsion - Adventurer can force a subject to commit any non-suicidal act, target must be fascinated and have suggestion implanted to follow Adventurer’s will, and gets saving throw at DC 13+Adventurer’s Cha; counts against daily limit
Aura of Spell-Resistance - Allies within 30ft gain SR of 11+Adventurer’s Cha
Adventurer's Casting Technique: Adventurer can casting in light armour without any spell casting failure.

 

[Crothian]

Again, people just seem to want to add to much to the Bard. THe only thing I saw theat you took aweay was medium armor and switched the Bard spell list for the Wizard one. Which is a very bold move considering that all those cool Bard only spells are no longer on the list.

i like the abilities, however there are just to many. It would be better to just list them all and allow the character to choose one at every level they get a new Bard Song

 

[Archimago]

i like the abilities, however there are just to many. It would be better to just list them all and allow the character to choose one at every level they get a new Bard Song

I agree there could be too many, but the way the Bard is currently done they gain a whole bunch in the very early levels but by level 9 no more new songs. I'd like to spread out that a bit, but I do want a bunch in the early going to give bards the very basic songs, inspire competence, fascinate, etc.

Maybe you have a suggestion of how to accomplish this, Crothian?

Besides, we're really no longer talking about the Bard, we wanting something that didn't really have instruments and such, that's a major departure from the Bard, so I feel comfortable making large changes even though the class is meant to be a jack-of-all-trades type guy

 

[Archimago]

moving...

I'm going to start a new thread as we are way off the topic of converting old kits and maybe some new participants will join the discussion.

 

[Crothian]

Re: How about this...

What I would do is create a list like you have of all the ability choices. Some are obviously more powerful then othewrs. So, the more powerful ones get prerequisites. I'd really just treat this like feat chains. I realize that you are moving away from the Bard, and that is good.

So, at first level allow them to pick 2 and then every 3rd level (3,6,9,12,15,18). You can also allow them to spend a feat to get one of these abilites.

Most classes havea focus and I'm not realling seeing the niche this is supposed to fill. I think one can make a Bard without music ability. Ya, it might seema bit wierd, but I've heard of people who have done it.

The spell list needs to be smaller the n the Wizards. That's the powr of the wizard, being able to do almost anything with magic. I think handing out that spell list weakens the wizard.

The increase in skill points is great. WotC needs to errata the Bard like that. That may be the second most common house rule next to increaseing Skill Focus to +3.

 

[Narkaious]

the bard is not a jack of all trades. the rouge fills this spot.
the thing that is upsetting about this thread is that everyone wants to ditch the music.

LOOK at the name, BARD, as in musian, minstrel, one who performs and is good at it

just think about it.

 

[DreamChaser]

the bard is not a jack of all trades. the rouge fills this spot. the thing that is upsetting about this thread is that everyone wants to ditch the music.

LOOK at the name, BARD, as in musian, minstrel, one who performs and is good at it

just think about it.

you are slightly in error on this point.

historically, bards were not musicians. they were priests and historians who learned historical ballads that bore more resemblence to poems than to actual songs. The transition of bard from priest to musician happened some where along the way but in d&d it was definitely present in the 1e bard.

The kits from the Bard's handbook were mostly different types of PERFORMERS. Not all of them used music (which isn't necessarily bad) but instead performed in other ways (such as with blades, or with dance, or with songs but focused at animals).

This is not, inherently, a problem. IF you wish to keep the music in the bard, then obviously the bard kits would not be for you but I can see room for other perfomance styles in the bard.

and by the way it is ROGUE not ROUGE (major pet peeve of mine. I'm not make-up I'm a scoundrel).

-DC