Converting to 5 spell levels- Update Post #24 MP System

[Sadrik]

The concept here (which I have now worked out completely) is:
0-1st level spells become low level magic
2nd-3rd level spells become lesser magic
4th-5th level spells become greater magic
6th-7th level spells become high level magic
8th-9th become epic level magic

Low level magic is available at caster levels 1-4
Lesser magic is available at caster levels 5-8
Greater magic is available at caster levels 9-12
High level magic is available at caster levels 13-16
Epic magic is available at caster levels 17+

Why do this? What does it do?
Well,
I have always felt that the spells were arbitrarily placed in 10 spell levels. What is the difference between 6th and 7th level spells? Not much.
It moves it in line with invocations.
It can be pretty easy to develop a system of spells

Some of the low level spells particularly 2nd would need to be shift down to low level magic.

 

[DreamChaser]

What would spells per day look like? the line between 1st and 2nd is not too big but the line between 0 and 1 can be huge.

A 1st level cleric currently has 3 0-level and 1 + 1 1st level per day. Would he now have 4+1 low spells per day? if so, cure minor wounds becomes even more obsolete than it was. Similar with Acid Splash and Magic Missile for a wizards.

The impotence of 0-level spell seems to me to be the greatest starting barrier to this idea.

DC

 

[Rystil Arden]

Not just Cure Minor Wounds--Cure Moderate and Cure Critical become utterly worthless as well. And who needs Summon Monster N (where N % 2 == 0) either?

What about DCs? Use the lower one? The higher one?

What about odd-level metamagic hikes? Do you make Silent Spell even more obscenely difficult to manage and charge a whole increase from Lesser to Greater?

What about effects that add up spell levels like Spell Turning or hedge out certain levels like Globe of Invulnerability?

How will magic item pricing be determined--the lower number? The higher number?

What will the required stats be to cast spells?

How many extra spell slots will you get for high ability scores? What about for being a Specialist Wizard?

How does your Ur-Priest's ability to weave spells work now?

Just to name a few issues...

 

[Sadrik]

DreamChaser,
Thanks for the reply.
The spells per day would not be the same I was thinking they would be similar to how a psion, warlock or a martial adept gets their powers. Essentially, have a long column of "spells known".

Spells per day would also be different too. Either moving to a psion system or some other variant spell point system (like the one I have posted here). However, that does not mean that a slot system couldnt be implemented.

Rystil Arden,
Thanks for the reply also.
First off this was sort of a, "What if..." Good ideas often come from these though!
I agree that certain spells become completely obsolete. But that is ok because their are better ones right there to use. You never use acid splash because there is acid orb. You never use cure minor wounds because cure light wounds is right there.

DC's could be 2 per level. So, +1, +3, +5, +7 and +9 for epic. (Or go with the flat saves variant like I have posted here)

Minor globe would hedge out, up to lesser magic and major globe would hedge out greater magic, and theoretically their could be one that hedges out least magic too.
Spell turning would follow the DC boosts as above and count as those spell levels for this.

Magic item prices would follow the same as the DC boosts.

Required stats would not change.

The Ur priest and other abilities to key off spells would go with the pseudo spell levels of 1/3/5/7/9. All other class abilities that key off of spell levels would key off of the 1/3/5/7/9.

 

[Rystil Arden]

So are odd metamagic feats rounded up or down?

 

[Sadrik]

Five Level Alternate Spell System

Spells Known
Caster		Low		Lesser		Greater	High		Epic
Level		Magic		Magic		Magic		Magic		Magic
1		5		-		-		-		-
2		6		-		-		-		-
3		7		-		-		-		-
4		8		-		-		-		-
5		9		1		-		-		-
6		10		2		-		-		-
7		11		3		-		-		-
8		12		4		-		-		-
9		13		5		1		-		-
10		14		6		2		-		-
11		15		7		3		-		-
12		16		8		4		-		-
13		17		9		5		1		-
14		18		10		6		2		-
15		19		11		7		3		-
16		20		12		8		4		-
17		21		13		9		5		1
18		22		14		10		6		2
19		23		15		11		7		3
20		24		16		12		8		4

Spells Per Day
Caster		Low		Lesser		Greater	High		Epic
Level		Magic		Magic		Magic		Magic		Magic
1		2		-		-		-		-
2		3		-		-		-		-
3		4		-		-		-		-
4		5		-		-		-		-
5		5		2		-		-		-
6		5		3		-		-		-
7		5		4		-		-		-
8		5		5		-		-		-
9		5		5		2		-		-
10		5		5		3		-		-
11		5		5		4		-		-
12		5		5		5		-		-
13		5		5		5		2		-
14		5		5		5		3		-
15		5		5		5		4		-
16		5		5		5		5		-
17		5		5		5		5		2
18		5		5		5		5		3
19		5		5		5		5		4
20		5		5		5		5		5

Bonus Spells
Caster		Low		Lesser		Greater	High		Epic
Stat		Magic		Magic		Magic		Magic		Magic
10		0		-		-		-		-
12		1		-		-		-		-
14		2		-		-		-		-
16		2		1		-		-		-
18		2		2		-		-		-
20		2		2		1		-		-
22		3		2		2		-		-
24		3		2		2		1		-
26		3		3		2		2		-
28		3		3		2		2		1
30		4		3		3		2		2
32		4		3		3		2		2
34		4		4		3		3		2
36		4		4		3		3		2
38		5		4		4		3		3
40		5		4		4		3		3
42		5		5		4		4		3
44		5		5		4		4		3
46		6		5		5		4		4
48		6		5		5		4		4

So how I would use these charts with the core casters would be:

Bard 3/4 caster level (caster level 15 at 20th)
Cleric 1/1
Druid 1/1 caster
Paladin 1/2 caster (caster level 10 at 20th)
Ranger1/2 caster (caster level 10 at 20th)
Sorcerer 1/1 caster
Wizard 1/1 caster
All other non-casters would add a 1/4 their levels to another caster (caster level 5 at 20th)

Caster Level Chart
Character	1/1		3/4		1/2		1/4
Level		Caster		Caster		Caster		Caster
1		+1		+1		+0		+0
2		+2		+1		+1		+0
3		+3		+2		+1		+0
4		+4		+3		+2		+1
5		+5		+3		+2		+1
6		+6		+4		+3		+1
7		+7		+5		+3		+1
8		+8		+6		+4		+2		
9		+9		+6		+4		+2
10		+10		+7		+5		+2
11		+11		+8		+5		+2
12		+12		+9		+6		+3
13		+13		+9		+6		+3
14		+14		+10		+7		+3
15		+15		+11		+7		+3
16		+16		+12		+8		+4
17		+17		+12		+8		+4
18		+18		+13		+9		+4
19		+19		+14		+9		+4
20		+20		+15		+10		+5

Bards use the spells known chart with no bonuses
Clerics use the spells known chart with the following bonus spells all cures or inflicts and the two domains they select.
Druids use the spells known chart with all of the animal summoning spells added in.
Paladins use the spells known chart with no bonuses
Rangers use the spells known chart with no bonuses
Sorcerers use the spells known chart with no bonuses
Wizards use the spells known chart and can add further spells into their books with a cost. All of the other spells gained for leveling up are added to their book for free.

 

[Rystil Arden]

You should give Specialist Wizards 2 more, like they used to get. Either that or go back to 3.0 Specialisation rules. Barring oneself from two schools for such a tiny benefit is a terrible deal in this system.

 

[Sadrik]

So are odd metamagic feats rounded up or down?

I have no idea. Any ideas?

Could be something like burn an extra spell slot to apply meta magic ala arcana unearthed/evolved.

To use a meta magic feat a caster must burn an extra spell slots to use the feat.

Meta Magic Modifier Chart
Low Magic	Lesser Magic	Greater Magic	High Magic	Epic Magic
1		2		3		4		5

So a +3 meta magic modifier would require burning 3 points of spells from the above chart

 

[Sadrik]

You should give Specialist Wizards 2 more, like they used to get. Either that or go back to 3.0 Specialisation rules. Barring oneself from two schools for such a tiny benefit is a terrible deal in this system.

Agreed, Specialists and Cleric Domains should give more:

Bonus Specialist Wizard and Cleric Domain Spells Per Day
Caster		Low		Lesser		Greater	High		Epic
Level		Magic		Magic		Magic		Magic		Magic
1		1		-		-		-		-
2		1		-		-		-		-
3		2		-		-		-		-
4		2		-		-		-		-
5		2		1		-		-		-
6		2		1		-		-		-
7		2		2		-		-		-
8		2		2		-		-		-
9		2		2		1		-		-
10		2		2		1		-		-
11		2		2		2		-		-
12		2		2		2		-		-
13		2		2		2		1		-
14		2		2		2		1		-
15		2		2		2		2		-
16		2		2		2		2		-
17		2		2		2		2		1
18		2		2		2		2		1
19		2		2		2		2		2
20		2		2		2		2		2

 

[DreamChaser]

So what is the point of being a sorcerer instead of a wizard in this system?

DC