Converting True Dragons

[Shade]

Yeah, let's save the jet-propelled dragon for a more appropriate conversion, or better yet, a homebrew.

If we need to jazz up the bestiary dragon some more, this might be one of its sources of inspiration:
http://bestiary.ca/beasts/beast262.htm

 

[freyar]

Ok, but let's add the thermal riding.

It's been so long since we started this one: should we think about SLAs at all, or does that not mesh with the flavor?

 

[Shade]

They don't seem necessary, as the source material seems to indicate a melee brute.

The link I posted below seems to indicate a clever ambush hunter, well-camouflaged in trees. So perhaps a racial bonus on Hide checks in forest environs?

 

[freyar]

Sounds fair enough.

 

[Shade]

Updated.

I'm assuming no subtype for this dragon?

Environment: Warm forests and swamps?

Should we move the thermal riding to a higher age category to lessen some of its "front-loadedness"?

 

[Cleon]

Yeah, let's save the jet-propelled dragon for a more appropriate conversion, or better yet, a homebrew.

If we need to jazz up the bestiary dragon some more, this might be one of its sources of inspiration:
Medieval Bestiary : Dragon

Thing is there's quite a wide variety of dragons in medieval bestiaries. This fellow seems to be a "fire drake" radiating terrible heat as it flies like some kind of destructive scaly comet. (I've read a couple of fantasy novels set in various fantasy Europes that feature such dragons, and there're similar creatures in North mythology).

However, the "standard issue" dragon from classical and medieval sources is basically a glorified snake or lizard that doesn't have such a heat-aura, but used its terrible tail (and sometimes poisonous bite or breath) to slay its prey. A lot of them didn't fly either.

So, before we go to far I guess we should settle on what sort of Bestiary Dragon we're modelling. Are we interpreting the Dragon magazine version, the "standard bestiary elephant-strangler" or a dragon that covers all those creatures?

If the latter, I suppose we could do an "affix the parts" monster? Have a basic Bestiary Dragon with a Constrict special attack with its tail and then attack a random number (1-3?) of additional special attacks "options" like Invulnerable Skin, Poison Breath, Flying Inferno, Venomous Fangs et cetera, like how the SRD Ghost gets Manifestation plus 1-3 other SAs?

If we're trying to match the bestiary's 'elephant-killer' dragon we need a rethink. That dragon is a relatively weak dragon (since the elephant often kills it in their battles) and shouldn't really have a heat aura. It'll also need a decent Hide modifier to evade the SRD elephant's Spot +10.

 

[Cleon]

Ok, but let's add the thermal riding.

It's been so long since we started this one: should we think about SLAs at all, or does that not mesh with the flavor?

OK, I can live with just thermal riding.

I don't think it should have spell-like powers, it's basically just a dumb brute.

 

[Cleon]

Updated.

I'm assuming no subtype for this dragon?

Environment: Warm forests and swamps?

Should we move the thermal riding to a higher age category to lessen some of its "front-loadedness"?

Maybe give it the Fire subtype? The original is obviously based on the Red Dragon, and it is immune to all fire and heat damage.

Warm forests and swamps is good.

I'd keep its abilities pretty front-loaded since I imagine these dragons are pretty instinctive combatants. That said, I would be OK having the Thermal Riding kick in at age category Young, since that's when its fly speed jumps from 100 ft. to 150 ft.

EDIT: Oh yes, there's still a "tlalocoatl" in the updated entry's Constrict description and some Swallow Whole text in the Improved Grab write up.

Is the Swallow Whole a typo or a sign of uncertainty? I suppose we could give a bigger version of the dragon Swallow Whole if we want to expand its powers (maybe in combination with red-hot innards like a Remorhaz, so it can roast its swallowed foes in its hellish gullet?).

 

[Shade]

Fire subtype makes sense, as does thermal riding at Young.

Is the Swallow Whole a typo or a sign of uncertainty? I suppose we could give a bigger version of the dragon Swallow Whole if we want to expand its powers (maybe in combination with red-hot innards like a Remorhaz, so it can roast its swallowed foes in its hellish gullet?).

I was considering it, until you shot it down upthread.

I'll vote against giving them swallow whole.

The original doesn't have it, and they won't have difficulty eating their victims if they cook them 'til their nice and tender using their heat-aura.

A few other considerations...

Dragon: The bestiary version of this reptile differs from the game version in that it is a giant winged serpent rather than a giant winged lizard. It has a crest and a weak bite, but its tail can deliver a powerful clubbing blow. This dragon kills by constriction, like a python. The dragon is large enough to constrict elephants.

The dragon's strength is found in its tail, not in its teeth.

True dragons normally don't gain tail slap attacks until Young adult age category. This could prove problematic for this type of dragon.

I suggest we note that its bite attacks are treated as if it were one size category smaller, and that it gains a tail slap attack immediately. Since damage progression for tail slaps is identical to claws, we can just say that Medium or smaller bestiary dragons deal damage with their tail slaps equal to their claws. Does that sound good?

 

[freyar]

Weak bite plus immediate tail slap (at claw damage)? I think I like that. I'd support adding swallow whole back.