Converting True Dragons

[freyar]

I can go for CE, so we're agreed on all that!

Well, along the lines of the "evil twin" gold dragon idea, what about giving them the basic physical form of a gold dragon but with somewhat tarnished looking scales?

 

[Cleon]

I can go for CE, so we're agreed on all that!

Well, along the lines of the "evil twin" gold dragon idea, what about giving them the basic physical form of a gold dragon but with somewhat tarnished looking scales?

Updating the Mystaran Amber Dragon Working Draft.

Well, along the lines of the "evil twin" gold dragon idea, what about giving them the basic physical form of a gold dragon but with somewhat tarnished looking scales?

The BECMI text says they appear "identical to that of the corresponding normal color" - i.e. like a gold dragon - but "at closer ranges (within 30'), the shimmering color differences can be easily distinguished by the trained eye".

Contrariwise, the Mystaran MC Brown Dragon has "Mystarans know this creature as the “amber dragon” because its scales, which are normally opaque and brown, become as translucent as amber during key stages of its development (adolescence and extreme age—roughly, the very young and young age categories, plus very old and older)".

Methinks we should combine the two. Real life amber can range from bright yellow to brown-black, so maybe Amber Dragons do too, and in their "golden yellow" stage(s) they are the same colour as Gold Dragons, with a close examination revealing their scales are transparent.

 

[freyar]

That seems like an excellent approach. Maybe we can just borrow the description from the SRD gold dragon with a few tweaks and put the bit about the color variation in the flavor text. How's that sound?

 

[Cleon]

That seems like an excellent approach. Maybe we can just borrow the description from the SRD gold dragon with a few tweaks and put the bit about the color variation in the flavor text. How's that sound?

That's more or less what I had in mind. What do you think of:

On hatching, a Mystaran amber dragon’s scales are dark brown with golden flecks.

The flecks get larger as the dragon matures until, at the young adult stage, the scales are completely golden. The scales rapidly darken to brown-black at the adult stage, then change back to golden when the dragon enters the old stage. Mystaran amber dragons’ faces are bewhiskered and sagacious; as they age, their pupils fade until the eyes resemble pools of molten gold.

A young adult or elderly Mystaran amber dragon looks very much like a gold dragon, the main difference is their shimmering scales are slightly transparent, like amber. It requires a DC X Spot or Knowledge (arcana) check to notice the difference.

 

[freyar]

Seems great! DC 20? That's a pretty common number for this sort of thing.

 

[Cleon]

Seems great! DC 20? That's a pretty common number for this sort of thing.

Hmm. The original only says the difference is easily distinguishable within 30 feet to a "trained eye", but beyond 120 feet they appear identical.

Let's see, that suggests someone with a decent bonus in Spot has a reasonable chance of noticing the difference within 30 feet (a -3 Spot penalty), but none within 120 feet (a -12 Spot penalty).

A base DC of 20 would become 32 at a 120 foot range, so you'd need a +12 Spot to notice a difference on a roll of 20.

The question is what should we use for a "trained eye". It might be as little as a +8 Spot, which is exceptionally observant for a regular joe in 3E (e.g. a 1st level human character with maxed out Spot, Alertness and Wis 14), but is merely average for a mid-level adventurer.

If the latter, a DC as low as 15 might be enough, so a trained low-level character has a decent chance of noticing they're not a gold dragon.

That's assuming we want low-level characters to have such a chance, bearing in mind it'd make it trivial for high-level PCs to notice the "gold" dragon isn't such a beast.

Maybe we could make it level-dependent? Something like DC = dragon's CR. I can see an argument for that, since their coloration changes with age. That'd require changing the last sentence to something like "Noticing the difference requires a Spot or Knowledge (arcana) check against a DC equal to the Mystaran amber dragon's Challenge Rating."

 

[freyar]

The problem with using CR as the DC is that they are first easily distinguished, then not-easily, then easily again, then not-easily, at least the way we have it written up now. I'd intended the DC 20 only for young adult and old or older. What about DC 12 or 15 at young adult and DC 20 at old or older?

 

[Cleon]

The problem with using CR as the DC is that they are first easily distinguished, then not-easily, then easily again, then not-easily, at least the way we have it written up now. I'd intended the DC 20 only for young adult and old or older. What about DC 12 or 15 at young adult and DC 20 at old or older?

I'd rather make it DC 20 or so and leave it at that.

 

[freyar]

I do prefer the flat DC but thought you didn't, so that's fine with me.

So, "By the young adult stage, Mystaran amber dragons closely resemble gold dragons. A DC 20 Spot or Knowledge (arcana) check is required to notice the difference prior to interaction with the dragon."? I'm ambivalent about the Know. (arcana) check, and I figure the last bit is necessary because a gold-like dragon acting CE or the funny breath weapon is probably a dead give-away.

 

[Cleon]

I do prefer the flat DC but thought you didn't, so that's fine with me.

Well you know me, I don't like to overcomplicate things...

So, "By the young adult stage, Mystaran amber dragons closely resemble gold dragons. A DC 20 Spot or Knowledge (arcana) check is required to notice the difference prior to interaction with the dragon."? I'm ambivalent about the Know. (arcana) check, and I figure the last bit is necessary because a gold-like dragon acting CE or the funny breath weapon is probably a dead give-away.

Well I'd like another skill besides Spot being an option, since the original speaks of an "expert" being able to tell the difference, and Knowledge (arcane) is the Knowledge skill that officially covers dragons.