Converting True Dragons

Cleon

Legend
I'd like to keep Tourmaline as the name for that dragon, since Shade chose it, and it's sort of a gem dragon. Apparently there is also a different rainbow dragon, so I'd stay away from that. However, I don't mind listing quartz or spectral as other nicknames if you want to add that to the entry.

Yes, there is already a Rainbow Dragon in the CC that's a conversion of an evil spellcasting dragon from Dragon #146.

We've just got too many dragons!

I would be happy to add some additional names to the Tourmaline entry though, something like:

Tourmaline dragons are known by many other names by different cultures, the commonest alternative name for these dragons are prismatic dragon, spectral dragon, quartz dragon, and rainbow dragon.

The question is how to go about it (see below).

Let's deal with the Faerunian yellow next.

Before we go too far, both the Tourmaline and Faerunian Yellow Dragon have completed CC entries, so am I going to update the Temp Creature Catalog HTML files for these dragons and send them to Darjr once we've agreed on the changes?

Alternatively, am I just posting a "how we'll update it" note on for these dragons on Corrections to Monsters in the CC?
 

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freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I can go for an additional line like that in the Tourmaline dragon entry.

For now, let's just keep a note in the Corrections thread. Maybe if darjr isn't up to developing a new CC database any time soon, we can make all the corrections and send him an entirely updated set. That would be a way to add new critters, too.
 

Cleon

Legend
I can go for an additional line like that in the Tourmaline dragon entry.

For now, let's just keep a note in the Corrections thread.

I've added such a note to the Corrections thread.

Maybe if darjr isn't up to developing a new CC database any time soon, we can make all the corrections and send him an entirely updated set. That would be a way to add new critters, too.

In some ways it might be easier to create such a new set. It would also allow us to add all the Hazards we've got in our pending list.

It depends on how much Darjr has on his plate - I have a feeling he's kept busy with Enworld server maintenance chores and the like.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Maybe we should just ask him --- if it's going to be a while, we can start doing batches of updates, maybe 20 critters a month or however often he'd be willing to update the HTML versions.

Anyway, on to the Faerunian yellow dragon?
 


freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Yes, we should ask him soon, I guess.

I went looking but couldn't easily find the original text for the yellow's blinding breath. Care to post that?
 

Cleon

Legend
Yes, we should ask him soon, I guess.

I went looking but couldn't easily find the original text for the yellow's blinding breath. Care to post that?

The original monster is in the 2E AD&D Draconomicon (1990), and has the following breath weapon:

A yellow dragon's breath weapon is a high-velocity blast of scorching air mixed with sand (imagine a super-heated sandstorm). This affects an area 50 feet long, 40 feet wide, and 20 feet high. Creatures caught within this blast must roll successful saving throws vs. breath weapon for half damage. Regardless of the outcome of this roll, they must make another saving throw vs. breath weapon. A failure on this saving throw means that the abrasive sand in the breath blast has damaged their eyes, blinding them for 1d4+1 rounds.

It was reprinted in the 2E Monstrous Manual (1993) with some slight alterations to the text, including the following breath weapon:

A yellow dragon's breath weapon is a high-velocity blast of scorching air mixed with sand. This affects an area 50 feet long, 40 feet wide, and 20 feet high. Creatures caught within this blast must roll successful saving throws vs. breath weapon for half damage. Regardless of the outcome of this roll, they must make another saving throw vs. breath weapon. Failure means that the abrasive sand in the breath blast has damaged their eyes, blinding them for 1d4+1 rounds.

As you can see, the differences are inconsequential.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Wait a sec, the copy of the Faerunion yellow dragon you provided me has a blinding effect in its breath weapon and a sinkhole attack described in the tactics (though not mechanically). Did you think these were missing?
 

Cleon

Legend
Wait a sec, the copy of the Faerunion yellow dragon you provided me has a blinding effect in its breath weapon and a sinkhole attack described in the tactics (though not mechanically). Did you think these were missing?

Sorry, it had been a long time since we last reviewed that Dragon update post so I'd forgotten the details.

I'm thinking it'd be better to have a special attack for the sinkhole ability rather than leave it flavour text.

I was going to say we should just modify whatever "sinkhole" ability we gave the Ant Lion, but upon reviewing the Creature Catalog conversion of that monster it doesn't have a special ability.

However, all is not lost. The 3.0 CC version was officially replaced by a 3.5 version in Sandstorm which does have an appropriate special attack:

Pit (Ex): The pit of a giant ant lion fills four adjacent 5-foot squares and is 20 feet deep. It isn’t hard to recognize, requiring a DC 10 Spot or Survival check to notice. Charging or running characters are not entitled to a check. A creature that does not notice the pit can make a DC 17 Reflex save to avoid falling in.

A creature that falls into the pit begins to slide to the bottom at the rate of 10 feet per round. A DC 17 Climb check is necessary to arrest the slide, and struggling out of the pit requires a DC 22 Climb check.​

Alternatively, the 3.5 D&D version of the Gholor Undead Beast from the revised Bestiary of Krynn has a similar ability:

Funnel (Ex) A gholor uses its burrowing ability to create a funnel-like pit. The funnel is 20 feet wide and 15 feet deep with a 10-foot base that the gholor is partially buried in. Because the gholor reduces the surrounding earth to a soft silt, creatures within 5 feet of the edge of the funnel or in the funnel itself must succeed at a DC 20 Balance check for each square of movement in the funnel. Failure indicates the creature slides one square closer to the gholor. Failing the check by 5 or more causes the creature to slide all the way to the bottom. A creature at the bottom of a gholor’s funnel occupies the same space as the gholor and is treated as if squeezing through a space regardless of size (see squeezing in the Player’s Handbook). As a free action, the gholor can attempt a grapple check to constrict any character in its space, pressing it against the wall of the funnel. Escaping the gholor’s space requires a DC 20 Escape Artist check or a DC 20 Climb check, unless the gholor is grappling with the creature, in which case the character must first escape the grapple.​

Of the two, the former seems a better model.
 

Cleon

Legend
Okay, how about the following special attack?:

Sinkhole (Ex): A yellow dragon can excavate a concealed pit trap which appears as a broad shallow depression. The dragon lies buried at the depression's center with only its eyes and nostrils showing. Preparing this sinkhole takes 1 minute [?]. An approaching creature can recognize the depression as a threat with a Knowledge (nature), Spot or Survival check against a DC equal to the dragon's Hide skill plus 10 [?].

The yellow dragon can collapse this depression into a pit as a move-equivalent action. The dimensions of this pit are given in the Yellow Dragon Sinkhole Table below. All creatures standing within the area of the sinkhole must succeed at a Reflex save or Balance check or fall prone. In addition, all creatures within the center of the pit automatically fall to the bottom, while creatures standing on the sloping sides of the pit must succeed at a Reflex save or a Balance or Climb check or slide down to the bottom of the pit. Affected creatures take no damage from falling or sliding into the pit due to the softness of the sand. The DCs of all these rolls are Constitution-based, so will be equal to the save DC of the dragon's breath weapon.

Damaging Version:
The yellow dragon can collapse this depression into a pit as a move-equivalent action. The dimensions of this pit are given in the Yellow Dragon Sinkhole Table below. All creatures standing within the area of the sinkhole must succeed at a Reflex save or Balance check or fall prone. In addition, all creatures within the center of the pit automatically fall to the bottom (taking falling damage as indicated in the table), while creatures standing on the sloping sides of the pit must succeed at a Reflex save or a Balance or Climb check or slide down to the bottom of the pit. Affected creatures take no damage from sliding into the pit due to the softness of the sand. The DCs of all these rolls are Constitution-based, so will be equal to the save DC of the dragon's breath weapon.


The interior of the pit is difficult terrain. It requires a DC 20 [?] Balance or Climb check to move across the sloping sides of the pit without sliding to the bottom.

If the yellow dragon leaves its buried position at the center of the depression the sinkhole will subside and can no longer be collapsed into a pit.

Yellow Dragon Sinkhole Table
AgeSinkhole CenterSinkhole SidesSinkhole DepthFalling Damage
Small15 ft.15 ft. to 25 ft.5 ft.
Medium20 ft.25 ft. to 40 ft.5 ft.
Large30 ft.40 ft. to 60 ft.10 ft.1d6 nonlethal
Huge45 ft.60 ft. to 75 ft.15 ft.1d6 nonlethal
Gargantuan60 ft.75 ft. to 100 ft.20 ft.1d6 nonlethal plus 1d6
 

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