D&D 5E Convince me to Spend the Money

[neobolts]

So to know what 5th edition offers me different I have to read a bunch of PDFs....

That's not going to sell me, to be honest. I like books. I use PDFs only if I have to, as reading them for pleasure is not pleasurable and I find them slower for learning. I mean, I have a ton of PDFs already, but the only ones that get used are the ones I simply have to have material from for some gaming project, or the ones I already have read in a hard copy and know whats in it.

But thanks. When I have time I will look them over.

The PDFs are only the basic rules. They have full "how to play" rules, but only 4 classes and races. The book version also has feats. The PDFs absolutely will not replace amount of material in the PHB. But if you are on the fence, they are free and will help you decide if the book is worthwhile. I would skip the Starter Set. The module is a good module for new players, but as an experienced 3.x player, you are going to want the full PHB in all its glory.

5e is really nice. Its quite similar to 3.x, but has a lighter touch and faster combat turns. It does not play like 4e and the terminology is largely 3.x terminology.

 

[weldon]

How does it keep kobolds comparable to dragons though, and why is that a good thing that both would be always just as threatening?

They certainly aren't "just as" threatening. The idea is that in previous editions, AC and HP quickly ran away from the ability of lower level creatures to make any kind of threat. If your AC is 25 and the kobold has a +4 to hit, they will never, ever hit you. A high-level PC could wade through dozens of kobolds with no fear of being hurt.

"Bounded Accuracy" (the term that the 5e designers use) means that even low-level creatures still have a small chance to hit you. Maybe they have to roll a 20, but they still have a chance. Your HP scale up such so that one or two kobolds wouldn't be a threat, but dozens of them actually present a challenge.

This allows the DM to design encounters that include either one big, bad like a dragon, or a group of lower level creatures and create different challenges for the party. It also allows you to use the same creature for more levels of play and still challenge the players.

 

[Wicht]

As for the Core Rulebooks... yes, those represent an above-inflation price increase. But assuming you actually do like the game, it's likely they'll see very heavy use at your table. So, dividing that higher price with the number of hours of use, you're probably looking at an exceptionally good deal.

Shadowrun is a thicker book, has, I would assume, a lower print run, great art and layout, and is only $60 msrp for a self-contained system. Pathfinder is still, as far as I know, in print, meaning the $50 represents books still in production. I am cognizant of the hours-played calculation, but not completely moved by it.

As for nice adventures for sale - a paizo module, most of which are excellent, are $14 msrp. But I confess I wanted something comparable to the Beginners Box. Something I could recommend to other people if I liked it in the future as an excellent present for their children in and of itself. I was disappointed by that to say the least... but not enough not to consider the Players Handbook mind you... but that product, representing only itself, I thought, from a gamer's perspective, and the desires of an enthusiast who wants the hobby to thrive for everyone, was a let-down.

 

[Uller]

So to know what 5th edition offers me different I have to read a bunch of PDFs....

You are able to try it without buying it. How can this possibly be a bad thing? The Starter Set has a great adventure that is good for about 20 hours of play. Or you can even download one of the free adventures out there. I believe necromancer games has converted one to 5e.

 

[Wicht]

They're not just as threatening. It's more that the power curve in 5e is much less steep, such that where kobolds become utterly trivial very quickly in Pathfinder, they remain something of a threat for longer in 5e. And, likewise, while that dragon might be an instant-TPK to a 5th level party in PF, it might be one that the 5e party could survive for a round or two - long enough to flee for their lives.

That would, I think, be one of those things that could be either good or bad from a design perspective. I would have to see it in action to know if I liked it.

 

[Wicht]

"Bounded Accuracy" (the term that the 5e designers use) means that even low-level creatures still have a small chance to hit you. Maybe they have to roll a 20, but they still have a chance. Your HP scale up such so that one or two kobolds wouldn't be a threat, but dozens of them actually present a challenge.

In 3e/Pathfinder, 20s always hit regardless of AC, so this is not a new thing, at least not as you are describing it.

 

[Wicht]

5e is really nice. Its quite similar to 3.x, but has a lighter touch and faster combat turns. It does not play like 4e and the terminology is largely 3.x terminology.

I already mentioned my appreciation for the terminology continuation.

 

[Umbran]

So what does 5e offer me worth $150 dollars ($100 on Amazon) that wouldn't be better spent getting a new Core Rulebook (or maybe rebinding one of my old ones in leather), a copy of Shadow Run, and maybe the new edition of Paranoia when it is released?

As others have said, you can check out the 5e Basic rules for free.

What does 5e offer that...

...Shadowrun doesn't?

• A game that is fundamentally simple! I run a 5th Edition Shadowrun game, and I like it. But it is a pretty rules heavy, fiddly-bit system, even with the 5th edition improvements.
• A game that you can do well enough at adventure design yourself to not worry about content. Shadowrun's current adventure support isn't really any better than D&D's, and Shadowrun needs that support much more, IMHO.
• A game most folk know about and are probably willing to try. Shadowrun is kinda niche, and its previous incarnations caused enough problems to narrow that niche. 5e is a well-accepted game for which finding players will be a much smaller problem.
• A game where you can throw a bunch of stuff at the PCs, without so much worry about killing them off. Shadowrun combat is *deadly*, and the system makes no attempt to help the GM create challenges in a controlled manner. Shadowrun has the tendency of having characters avoiding the thing they are designed to do, which is a bit silly.

...new edition of Paranoia doesn't?

• A game mechanically suited for a campaign! Paranoia is fun, but it isn't great for prolonged use, mechanically speaking.
• A game that's not a one-trick pony. Paranoia is focused comedy and shtick, which is fun, but gets kinda tired for prolonged use.

...a new copy of Pathfinder doesn't?

• A new game! A new copy of Pathfinder's rules gives you content you already have, and are very familiar with. For you, a new copy is merely reinvestment in infrastructure.

 

[halfling rogue]

I've been playing 5e for 7 months now and have only spent $12 for the Starter Set. If you think of the Starter Set as 1) an sandbox adventure and 2) and intro into the 5e rules, I think you'll see $12 as a huge value. The biggest difference between what comes in the Pathfinder starter and the D&D starter is the absence of minis and a mat. I think this has less to do with saving money and more to do with how Wizards wants us to view 5e. In my experience with 3.5 minis were basically mandatory. 5e is pretty forward about minis not being essential to the game so they didn't want the first impression to give us the impression that minis were needed. Character creation, leveling up, fuller spells, etc can all be found for free in the PDF. I'll grant you that I don't like PDFs either, but man, it's hard to complain if they give it away for free.

The point is the Starter Set/Basic Rules is offered as more of a try before you buy than anything else. And it looks like you are the type of person they are aiming at. Extremely low price to buy in, test it out, kick the tires, play for as long as you like (again, I'm going on 7 months and could easily go 7 more), and buy the core books when you are ready.

 

[delericho]

That would, I think, be one of those things that could be either good or bad from a design perspective. I would have to see it in action to know if I liked it.

Indeed. Actually, I almost said that very thing in my post.

Here's the thing: with both this and the "price point" argument there is no one objective truth. Maybe you'll like the way 5e kobolds and dragons play; maybe you won't. Maybe you'll find the 3x$50 investment in the game worthwhile; maybe you won't. There's really not much we can say here, beyond "I like it" or "I felt it was worth it."

Mostly, I'm back to recommending trying Basic for yourself. Or, if you really want to avoid PDFs, get the Starter Set and play that - it's the same rules, minus character creation, so will give you a feel for the system.