Core Class - Priest (Low-magic)

[DreamChaser]

Priests in my setting aren't "White Mages" and they aren't "Battle-clerics". They're priests; they study, they pray, and they work in the community as scribes, mediators, and teachers.

IMHO, they are not adenturers then. If, however, you perfer a game placing ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances and watching them die...er struggle then this is an ideal class.

I suppose ultimately, I would never single class in this priest class. I would end up taking levels in something else to keep my character from feeling 1 trick, boring, and semi-buffy.

DC

 

[Darren Ravenshaw]

"Priests in my setting aren't "White Mages" and they aren't "Battle-clerics'. "They're priests; they study, they pray, and they work in the community as scribes, mediators, and teachers." So why do they have good Fort saves if they live so peaceful and non-strenous lives?

And why are they limit to only Knowledge(Religion/ Nobility & Royalty/ and History) as class skills? What about Knowledge(Geography/ LOCAL[since they "...work in the community.."]/ and Nature). I can understand not giving them Knowledge(Arcane/ Dungeoneering/ and Planes).

Turn or Rebuke Opposed Alignment: Why do people that "They're priests; they study, they pray, and they work in the community as scribes, mediators, and teachers." have the ability to cause people of an opposed alignment to run away? Even worse is the fact a 10th level Netural Evil Priest could walk into a town and kill an average of 19 Lawful/Chaotic Good commoners with each flick of his wrist(up to his limit of number of Turns per day).

Spirit Sight (Ex): If a creature make its save how long is it invisible to the Priest, forever, a number of minutes equal to the amount it made its save by, till it leaves the Priests area, till it attacks the Priest or his companions. What?

"I don't see a problem here at all at 10th level and a Wis of 18 he could heal 40 hp, considering that no other class has the ability to heal hp, it doesn't seem that bad to me." As the only sorce of non-natural healing this will place the party in a lot of danger. A 10th level Fighter will have an average of 60 hit points + 10 hp per point of Con bonus, meaning with a 14 Con will have 80hp. This means the Priest will only be able to heal the Fighter for at most half his hit points, and that is using all his healing for the day. Thus after 1 fight the Priest will be out of magical healing and the party will still be injured. Thus the party is in greater danger that the next fight will result in someone dying.

Benediction (Su): So there is no limit to how many times a Priest can use this ability? And the Priest can use this ability on anyone regardless of their alignment and/or religion?

Consecration (Sp): So this functions like the spell but affects those of opposed alignment instead of undead? And A Priest with a 16 Wisdom can use this ability 16 times before needing to rest for 8 hours? Does resting for 8 hours before having used all 16 uses reset the number of uses or does the Priest have to use the ability 16 times then rest to regain them? And does the ability function at a caster level equal to the Priests level?

Protection from Good/Evil/Law/Chaos (Sp): Can the Priest use every version or he limited to those based on his alignment? Again what is the Priests caster level when using this ability?

Why does the Priest gain no abilities after 10th level?

 

[harperscout]

I too am struggling to know how exactly to fix the cleric. I am not a fan of the PHB cleric, but I am not sure how to balance him against the other classes if I take away the spell casting portion of him. IMHO, if you want to take away the spell casting of the cleric, just nix the class all together and give other spell casters access to some healing magic.

 

[Megatron]

So why do they have good Fort saves if they live so peaceful and non-strenous lives?

And why are they limit to only Knowledge(Religion/ Nobility & Royalty/ and History) as class skills? What about Knowledge(Geography/ LOCAL[since they "...work in the community.."]/ and Nature). I can understand not giving them Knowledge(Arcane/ Dungeoneering/ and Planes).

Turn or Rebuke Opposed Alignment: Why do people that "They're priests; they study, they pray, and they work in the community as scribes, mediators, and teachers." have the ability to cause people of an opposed alignment to run away? Even worse is the fact a 10th level Netural Evil Priest could walk into a town and kill an average of 19 Lawful/Chaotic Good commoners with each flick of his wrist(up to his limit of number of Turns per day).

Spirit Sight (Ex): If a creature make its save how long is it invisible to the Priest, forever, a number of minutes equal to the amount it made its save by, till it leaves the Priests area, till it attacks the Priest or his companions. What?

Lay on Hands: As the only sorce of non-natural healing this will place the party in a lot of danger. A 10th level Fighter will have an average of 60 hit points + 10 hp per point of Con bonus, meaning with a 14 Con will have 80hp. This means the Priest will only be able to heal the Fighter for at most half his hit points, and that is using all his healing for the day. Thus after 1 fight the Priest will be out of magical healing and the party will still be injured. Thus the party is in greater danger that the next fight will result in someone dying.

Benediction (Su): So there is no limit to how many times a Priest can use this ability? And the Priest can use this ability on anyone regardless of their alignment and/or religion?

Consecration (Sp): So this functions like the spell but affects those of opposed alignment instead of undead? And A Priest with a 16 Wisdom can use this ability 16 times before needing to rest for 8 hours? Does resting for 8 hours before having used all 16 uses reset the number of uses or does the Priest have to use the ability 16 times then rest to regain them? And does the ability function at a caster level equal to the Priests level?

Protection from Good/Evil/Law/Chaos (Sp): Can the Priest use every version or he limited to those based on his alignment? Again what is the Priests caster level when using this ability?

Why does the Priest gain no abilities after 10th level?

Firstly, you're coming off like you have an attitude, I'll assume it's purey in my reading and simply reply to your questions.
Why they have good Fort saves: it's a gift of the divine, an improved fort save allows the Priest to help the sick.
Limited Knowledge Skills: Because in my mind I see the priestly caste focusing on those topics as part of their way of life - hence class skills.

Turn or Rebuke Opposed Alignment: Yes, thats precisely what could , and does happen. Two things made this potent ability playable in my game, firstly Alignment is something people earn through dealings with Outsiders. The fact that a priest gains an Aura of Alignment is an example of this, without this he would be Unaligned. With that in mind, only those on divine quests, outsiders, other priests, and the rare oath-bound individual would have to worry about being turned to ash.

Spirit Sight: This ability is only effective when the priest /could/ see the ethereal creature.

Lay on Hands: I fail to see a problem. I've done away with magical healing all together, Lay on Hands is the only ability that can instantly heal HP.

Benediction: Again, I stated no limitations on this because there are none other than what the orignal text reads.

Consecration: I've done away with the x/per day mechanic and have rewritten it as "before resting". This question seems a bit of a joke to me, so I'll ignore the rest, thanks. Casterlevel is equal to Priest Level.

Protection: The priest can use any of them, regardless of his alignment. Caster Level = Priest level.

The Priest gains no abilities after 10th level because that completes the "archetype" i was aiming for, and because all of the Priests abilities continue to improve as he gains levels.

 

[Megatron]

IMHO, they are not adenturers then. If, however, you perfer a game placing ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances and watching them die...er struggle then this is an ideal class.

I suppose ultimately, I would never single class in this priest class. I would end up taking levels in something else to keep my character from feeling 1 trick, boring, and semi-buffy.

DC

The idea of an "adventuring class" for any setting is utterly rediculous and I hope to never again submit myself to such. I tend to believe that they're is more to a character than their class and race.

 

[harperscout]

I don't think anyone is saying there isn't more to a character than race or class. It feels like you are trying to defend the class you created instead of recognizing some of the suggestions that people have given as just that, suggestions.

Personally, I agree with Darren about the limitations on the class skills here. If you take a look back at the historical religious orders, they were the most learned cast in any society. I am right with you when you define your cleric/priests:

"Priests in my setting aren't "White Mages" and they aren't "Battle-clerics'. "They're priests; they study, they pray, and they work in the community as scribes, mediators, and teachers."

That is excatly what they should be, but if you are going to make them those things, then you really should bust open their knowledge skill section. Give them access to all the knowledge skills. Heck, a really cool idea would be to give them something akin to the Bardic Knowledge ability... bits of lore and wisdom that they pick up from reading and teaching. I just think that you may want to consider opening that up a bit considering the role that you want them to play.

You may not want to describe it as an "adventuring class" but there has to be some "adventuring" involved when you play D&D. You want a class that is fun to play and brings something to the table when they start to fight the monsters and save the world. We are just trying to give you some suggestions on how to not just make a fun class, but a fun class to play while adventuring.

 

[Bront]

Ok, this class is underpowered compaired to some of the NPC classes. I'd rather play an Arisocrat, which would fill the spot of a non-magic priest quite nicely.

How to fix? Well, more skills would help. 8 SP per level would give them a lot of knowledge and reflext a more scholarly upbringing. And, potentialy allowing them a few bonus feats, perhaps a list of non-combat feats, or perhaps even a unique power or two related to their god. With that, it'd be a fairly interesting class and balanced with the other classes.

In addition to the above, I'd give them the following as class skills. Definately Decipher Script, Knowledge (ALL), and Speak Language. Possibly Appraise, Bluff, and/or Intimidate.

Keep in mind, underpowered doesn't mean unenjoyable. You can enjoy an underpowered character, but there are times it will be frustrating for a player.

As far as an "adventuring class", the idea is that adventurers are beyond your normal commoners, and even nobles or warriors. They have classes for those, but they aren't at the same level as a "adventuring class". If you're planning on roleplaying town politics, farming, trading, and the simple life, those classes will work well. If you're planning on running an adventure, they won't work quite so well.

Class and Race aren't all that make a character, but they are a big part. But, what makes a character unique in his class is the choices he makes within it. That's why you can choose your skills, your feats, your equipment, to make your character your own. Limit the class too much (No choices in domains, spells, few skills and skill choices, and only basic feats), and you'll get many similar builds, even if the personality is different.

 

[the Jester]

Ahh, you have big setting/game assumption changes in play. Gotcha. When the underlying assumptions of the game change, the way the game plays changes significantly as well.

I'm currently running a low-magic game as well, though- I suspect- a very different one. I have only wizards, priests and druids as spellcasters, although I also allow wilders.

With that in mind, you make an interesting defense of the class. In a sufficiently low-magic setting, with the game's emphasis shifting away from combat, I could see this class being very interesting.

 

[Li Shenron]

Why they have good Fort saves: it's a gift of the divine, an improved fort save allows the Priest to help the sick.

I like the concept here. You may consider also giving the Priest a couple of other Paladin abilities: Divine Health and Remove Disease (perhaps even Divine Grace, but maybe that's too much). Also, you could expand Remove Disease to also remove blindness/deafness, poison, negative levels and curses. Of course, you'd need some planning to do this, not just tossing all of them at once.

Turn or Rebuke Opposed Alignment

What I really hope is that you restrict this only to Turning/Rebuking and not Destroying/Controlling, which IMHO would be very out of line (even if that's highly unlikely to happen with your Turn Resistance scores, but I still think Destroying should just be impossible since the start).