Core Class Spell Seed User: Is it viable?

[Wyrm]

Hey,
This is my first post to the message boards, after lurking here for about 2 years. I must say that the level of intelligence on these boards is much higher than many other I've been to.

A possible rules change that I'm considering mainly as a thought experiment is if it would be viable to remove some of the spellcasting classes and replace them with a Caster that uses spell seeds from 1st level.

Some obvious problems:
-Knowledge requirement to get spells (the 10 per spell)
-Spellcraft DCs for the standard seeds would be very difficult at low levels (although not impossible)

Some advantages:
-a more varied mystical system where spells are part of the personality of the character
-no similarity between spellcaster's spell lists
-more work on the part of the player/DM

My thoughts are that the class would be something like this:

EDIT-->>>> Look down a few posts for the long revised version of this.

Spellcaster
HD: d4
Saves: One good of choice
BAB: As wizard

Spells per day are based on the spellcraft DC of the spell created and the knowledge score

Maybe something like this:
0-5 DC 4+1 per knowledge/10 round down per day
6-10 DC 3+1 per knowledge/10 round down per day
10-20 DC 2+1 per knowledge/10 round down per day
20-40 DC 1 + 1 per knowledge/10 round down per day
40 and up DC 1 per knowledge/10 round down per day

Then the class abilities would be:
No creation cost (perhaps institute the cost for spells over DC 40)
Less Time to Create (maybe a week of study for below DC 40)
Lower Spellcraft DC (the DC for spellcraft checks of spells that the Spellcaster creates would be lowered by 1/level up to a max of 10)
SkillFocus(Spellcraft) at 15th

Is this a really stupid idea or may there be some way that this could work? (I've also thought of making lower DC seeds and using a similar system)

Constructive criticism and comments would be much appreciated.

 

[Wyrm]

Forgot something:

The total number of spells created couldn't be more than 3 + the caster's level.

 

[las]

Sorry to say it wont work. You need to be an epic caster first for this to work.

 

[Wyrm]

If I was ignoring the requirement of needing to be epic to use spell seeds, do you think a spell seed based caster may work with heavy modification?

 

[las]

You could make it en epic Prc that get free epiv slots and such.

 

[fuindordm]

Spell seed user

I don't have the ELH, but your idea sounds intriguing. Pay no attention to the naysayers, work something up and post it here. I'm very interested.

--Ben

 

[Caliber]

How about the Spell Seed caster gets a few "free" spells per level (ones he doesn't have to pay for) but all the others need to be paid for in components?

Perhaps he gets 3 + his character level for spells of DC 20 or lower?

In many ways this character will be an even more focused sorceror. He won't know many spells but he will be able to cast them more often that other characters.

I would defintely suggest one alteration is somehow tieing an ability score in there somewhere. As is, this class gets a good number of spells at first, but goes downhill from there.

Either way though, I would love to see how it turns out. If you ever finish it up, post it. I will be looking forward to it.

 

[Henry]

No particular advice to add to this - just wanted to stop in and say, "Welcome!"

 

[Wyrm]

Revised Spell Seed User (name under review)

I've spent some more time thinking about the class and am discarding most of what I wrote above. Here is the revised version:

HP: d8
BAB: Cleric
Saves: Wizard
Skills: 6 points/level and Wizard selection if Int primary stat, Sorcerer selection if Cha primary stat, and Cleric selection if Wis primary stat.
Armor: As cleric (note that spell failure doesn't applies to these spells no matter what the primary stat)
Weapons: As cleric

Class Features:

Primary Stat: At 1st level, the spell seed user may choose to use his Cha, Int, or Wis mod to spellcraft and must choose one as his primary stat.

Modified Epic Spellcasting Feat: At 1st level the Spell Seed User acquires a modified Epic Spellcasting Feat. The changes are as follows:
-Max DC for spells created using this feat: 2*level +12
-No cost/time creation for spellcraft DCs under 40
-Max Spells created: primary stat mod + level (minimum 3)
Any spells over this limit cost the Spell Seed User the normal amount divided by their level in gold and one-tenth of that number in experience.
-Minor Seed knowledge: the Spell Seed User starts with awareness (able to utilize in creation) in 5 seeds. He gains awareness of seeds at the rate of 1/level past 1st.
-See spells per day below for the number of casts per day for each spell
-NO bonuses may be used on the spellcraft roll which is:
Primary stat mod + Spellcraft ranks
-The final say on any spell created is up to the DM as always. A good rule would be to compare the spell to a spell one level higher than a wizard of the player's level could cast. If it is about of the same power, it should be allowable as long as the DC reflects about a 50/50 chance of casting the spell.
-Any spell with two different seeds has a -8 DC and any spell with three different seeds has a -16 DC
-All spells have a casting time of 1 full round (no adjustment to spellcraft DC)
-A caster may only sacrifice up to 50 X level experience points for a mitigating factor

Seed Modifications (necessary to lower Spellcraft DCs):
Afflict: If you decrease the morale penalty on attack rolls, checks, and saves by 1 (making it -1) the DC goes down 2.
Animate Dead: Each HD less than 20 that you animate, lowers the DC by 1.
Armor: Each point less of armor lowers DC by 2.
Banish: Each 2 HD of banishment less lowers DC by 1.
Conjure: Each cubic foot less lowers the DC by 1.
Destroy: Each die less (ie from 10d6 to 9d6), lowers the DC by 1.
Dispel: Each -1 to your dispel check, lowers DC by 1.
Energy: Each die less (ie from 10d6 to 9d6), lowers the DC by 2.
Heal: Add a DC 14 ability that heals 1d8 hp + caster level. Add +1d8 per +1 DC.
Transport: Every 200 pounds less teleported, subtract 3 DC.
Life: For every 30 years subtracted off the two hundred, lower the DC by 1.
Slay: For every 20 HD less than the standard 80, lower the DC by 2.

Spells Per day:
Each spell has its own number of times cast per day determined by this formula (round down with a minimum of 1):

(Primary Stat mod + level *2)/(Spellcraft DC)

A failed cast doesn't use up the usage for that day.

Each level the Spell Seed User may add 1 use per day to any created spell with a DC less than 12+level. These uses may not be saved and must be applied. If the Spell Seed User for some reason has no such spell, this usage is wasted.

NOTE: all references to level refer to Spell Seed User class level

Comments welcome. One other possibility I've been considering
is making Con as an option for the primary stat, but I can't think of
a reason why everyone wouldn't pick it. The hitpoints may also be needed to be changed to d6.

 

[Caliber]

It looks pretty good. I would still suggest offering the ability to make more than Primary Stat Mod + Level spells, but charge 'em for those.

You could possibly let them wear armor without arcane spell failure. Remember, these guys won't be able to whip out the magic items. No wands of Cure Light or Magic Missile. No scrolls of Wish. Thats a good chunk of power. They don't need to be proficient in the armor worn, it just doesn't affect their casting. Very similar to Psions in that regard.

Otherwise, this seems to be shaping up rather well, IMO.