Core-Only Advice

[Jack Simth]

Eh, go with a Druid; your party is lacking in healing, so it's basically that or Cleric.

Druid gets (over the Cleric):
1) More skills than the Cleric (4+Int vs. 2+Int)
2) Better skill list than the Cleric (Listen and Spot, especially; both get Diplomacy)
3) More class features than the Cleric
Cleric gets (over the Druid)
1) More spells
2) Better spells
3) Better Armor

They're both power classes; however, for infiltrating enemy lines, the Druid pretty much slaughters the Cleric.

For getting past enemy lines, you go in broad daylight - as an Eagle (small animal) way up out of bowshot. You can even get the rest of the party through the same way by means of Polymorph (although the Wizard with Teleport can do better... if the target terrain is well known; if there's a lot of trees, though, Tree Stride can do nice things for you). You've got a zillion ways to get by in hostile territory (hey - at an Hour/level Tree Stride can let you rest in relative safety), can't be tracked (except by magic - trackless step is a Druid class feature... and you've got a good Will save for all those Scrying attempts). You've also got any movement mode required (by way of Wildshape).

 

[questbreaker]

this is all good advice. im not too familiar with cleric spells, last time i played on i went DMM and played the party tank with mechanus gear armor and an oversized vampiric maul. i usually play a pretty good druid, but i really dislike the feats for druids in core. and for our game, core is defined as what was actually written at the time of printing, no SRD and no errata. i dont really want to play a full caster. and the person who said they were going to play a rogue will probably play a bard now, and one of our proposed spellcasters might play a monk instead. the only sure bet party member is a wizard and a sorceror; with a possible monk, bard, and barbarian.

i was thinking something like rogue / assassin, what feats though? im not too keen on the PHB feats, perhaps throw leadership in there?

i like the idea of using a rogue for infiltration, with a ring of invisibility and slippers of spider climb, plus max skills dont hurt. and a cohort to boot. if i get a cohort, what would be a good choice? a cleric? our party will probably need a cleric.

 

[nittanytbone]

i like the idea of using a rogue for infiltration, with a ring of invisibility and slippers of spider climb, plus max skills dont hurt. and a cohort to boot. if i get a cohort, what would be a good choice? a cleric? our party will probably need a cleric.

Why not play a cleric and get a Rogue cohort? You could play the cleric as being slothful/cautious/a bum who sends his Rogue cohort out on missions, then you can run the rogue more often than the cleric if you want. The cleric's job is to sit at home, craft magic items, and buff his cohort/friends up big time before they head out. If you want to tag along, just fire up invisibility and stand in the back buffing while your cohort does the heavy lifting.

A cleric that is two casting levels behind is at a huge disadvantage.

A rogue who is two levels behind is perhaps, at most, -2 on some skill checks.

As for core feats, a Rogue has plenty of goodness to select from. Improved Initiative, the TWF feat chain, the PBS-->Precise Shot-->Rapid Shot feat chain, Iron Will, etc are all viable and will suck up your limited feat slots in a hurry.

Just be sure to pick up UMD as a maxed skill and talk the party into a Wand of Cure Light Wounds. A bard's healing will NOT be sufficient.

 

[Jack Simth]

this is all good advice. im not too familiar with cleric spells, last time i played on i went DMM and played the party tank with mechanus gear armor and an oversized vampiric maul. i usually play a pretty good druid, but i really dislike the feats for druids in core. and for our game, core is defined as what was actually written at the time of printing, no SRD and no errata.

You're playing 10th; the Monster Manual is Core. Play a Dwarf (for the +2 Racial bonus to all the saves you're liable to make in a day, plus darkvision), and you only have 1st, 3rd, 6th, and 9th level feats to worry about. Take Natural Spell at 6th, and Multiattack (Monster Manual) at 9th. Go with Improved Initiative at 1st (it's always useful) and Extend Spell at 3rd (you've got useful self-buffs).

Stat priority:
Wisdom 1st, Con 2nd. Int is useful (for all those nature skills), rest is gravy.

Combat:
Without the Wildshape errata, you've got some crazy-good personal buffs... if you're Wildshaped (and gain the Animal type). Animal Growth, for instance, lasts 1 minute/level, and grants you:
Size Huge (assuming you start out as a Megaraptor, which is Large), +8 Strength (Size bonus; great for making the Fighter cry; stacks with Bull's Strength), +4 Size to Con (and the accompanying +2 HP/HD; stacks with Bear's Endurance), +4 Resistence on saves (which is probably more than you could afford from a Cloak), DR 10/Magic (what's not going to penetrate it, though?), -2 to Dex (eh, whatever), and a +2 increase to Natural Armor (which exactly cancels out the AC effects of the -2 Dex and the Size Increase... for things other than touch attacks, anyway; technically stacks with barkskin, even).

Specifically, when you know you'll be in a big fight sometime in the next ten minutes (and you have a minute to prepare - when raiding, basically)

1) Invoke a Bead of Karma (+4 caster level, lasts 10 minutes).
Wildshape into a Megaraptor (if you're not already); this puts you at AC 17, move 60, Pounce, Talons +11 melee (2d6+5) and 2 foreclaws +9 melee (1d4+2) and bite +9 melee (1d8+2).

2) Cast Barkskin (caster level 14, lasts 140 minutes - extend it for 280, and you're good to go for a while); this puts you at at AC 22, move 60, Pounce, Talons +11 melee (2d6+5) and 2 foreclaws +9 melee (1d4+2) and bite +9 melee (1d8+2).

3-6) Cast Greater Magic Fang four times (once for each natural weapon; Talons, foreclaw, foreclaw, Bite; lasts 14 hours - all day) this puts you at AC 22, move 60, Pounce, Talons +14 melee (2d6+8) and 2 foreclaws +12 melee (1d4+5) and bite +12 melee (1d8+5).

7) Cast Animal Growth (lasts 14 minutes); this puts you at AC 22, DR 10/Magic, move 60, Pounce, Talons +17 melee (3d6+12) and 2 foreclaws +15 melee (1d6+7) and bite +15 melee (2d6+7), +20 HP (which more than covers the difference between the Fighter's d10 and your d8 HD), +4 Saves.

8) Cast Longstrider (+10 Move, lasts 14 hours); this puts you at AC 22, DR 10/Magic, move 70, Pounce, Talons +17 melee (3d6+12) and 2 foreclaws +15 melee (1d6+7) and bite +15 melee (2d6+7), +20 HP, +4 Saves.

Now go make the Fighter cry - especially as you get a Full Attack on a charge. If you sneak Power Attack into the build (replace Extend Spell, say), Fighter cries even more. Once Animal Growth wears off, you still have healing, Summoning, and have a fairly nice combat setup for the next four hours or so. Or just cast another Animal Growth.

When you want to zap for a little while, Call Lightning is a funny spell.

i dont really want to play a full caster.

Oh... nevermind, then.

and the person who said they were going to play a rogue will probably play a bard now, and one of our proposed spellcasters might play a monk instead. the only sure bet party member is a wizard and a sorceror; with a possible monk, bard, and barbarian.

i was thinking something like rogue / assassin, what feats though? im not too keen on the PHB feats, perhaps throw leadership in there?

For a Rogue-5/Assasin-5?

There aren't really any feats you especially need; I might suggest the Quick Draw and the two-weapon fighting chain (to maximize your increased Sneak Attack) and possibly Skill Focus (Use Magic Device).

You'll want touch attacks - high caster level wands of Chill Touch, a Druid's Produce Flame, and a Druid's Flame Blade are all good; as are Flasks of Acid and Alchemist's Fire. The idea being to make your sneak attacks touch attacks (so that the TWF penalties don't matter). As Produce Flame is an Effect spell, not a Touch spell, you can cast another spell from a wand with no ill effect, and touch things, too. Keep some wands of Grease handy for after the first combat round (or better, convince the party Wizard/Sorcerer to cast it a lot) as creatures that are Balancing without at least five ranks in balance lose their Dex to AC, and Grease forces Balance checks. Keep shortswords and a shortbow for backup.

i like the idea of using a rogue for infiltration, with a ring of invisibility and slippers of spider climb, plus max skills dont hurt. and a cohort to boot. if i get a cohort, what would be a good choice? a cleric? our party will probably need a cleric.

A Cleric is ALWAYS a good choice for an extra character - especially if nobody wants to play a heal-bot.

 

[avr]

i was thinking something like rogue / assassin, what feats though? im not too keen on the PHB feats, perhaps throw leadership in there?

i like the idea of using a rogue for infiltration, with a ring of invisibility and slippers of spider climb, plus max skills dont hurt. and a cohort to boot. if i get a cohort, what would be a good choice? a cleric? our party will probably need a cleric.

Assassins don't necessarily need rings of invisibility or slippers of spider climb. They can cast both spells after all.

For feats I'd pick up TWF (1st), Weapon finesse (3rd), silent spell (6th) and Improved TWF (9th). Low light or darkvision are too good for you to pass up, so no bonus feat for being a human. I'm not a big fan of getting Leadership to get a cohort/backup PC. In any case, as an assassin you'd have to talk fast to avoid penalties for 'aloofness (-1)' or 'cruelty (-2)' to your leadership score. Use magic device is your friend if you want cleric spells.

 

[Darklone]

Another option if healing isn't that mandatory: Bbn/Rog or Bbn/Bard.

Good str and con are all what you need for being a melee monster ... at least till you reach real high levels. And you'll have the skills to be versatile plus some spells for the rest. Keep dex, str and con at 16 and you can be archer and melee combatant.

Are psions included in your core only restriction? If yes, Wilder might be very interesting. Skills, firepower like hell and depending on stat generation you can fill other rolls as well.

 

[robberbaron]

My first thought was Druid as well. Perhaps with a Dire Rat companion, which should fit into the urban setting.

 

[questbreaker]

no, psions are never allowed no matter what. when the DM says 'anything goes' he means 'anything goes, except psions'. and as for an assassin being able to cast spider climb and invisibility, it still makes more sense to get the items because an assassin gets like 3 or 4 spells per day per level. in our games, we normally have in excess of 6 encounters per day, and each session of gameplay is usually 3 days of such combat. sometimes more or less depending on if we are in a more 'roleplay' part of an adventure. so that many encounters will burn my spells fast. I will probably go rogue / assassin and go for the ranged feats. ill talk to the rest of the party and see how they like the idea of me having a cohort cleric.

 

[questbreaker]

i know assassins got a good boost of useful spells with the spell compendium, but are assassins spells worth it in a core-only game?

 

[Nifft]

IMHO the spells are NOT worth the lost skill points. Nor the Rogue special ability that you'd get at 10th level.

Cheers, -- N