core prestige classes

[Chun-tzu]

The prestige classes in the DMG get more support in other supplements than other ones, due to the nature of the OGC. For example, in Magic of Faerun and Song & Silence, we see additional Assassin spells, but don't bet on your Bladesinger getting any more to choose from.

But the prestige classes in the DMG seem to be no more than a random sampling. Some prestige classes are more archetypal than others, and some have more history in D&D than others. These are probably the ones that should be considered core PrCs.

If you were doing the 3E core books, which prestige classes would you include?

I'd say the Cavalier, the Assassin, and the Thief-Acrobat should all be in there, given that they used to be full-fledged classes in 2E. (BTW, the Cavalier should be re-designed to be more Paladin-friendly. For example, Paladin Cavaliers don't get to advance their special mounts.)

Other PrCs that represent classic archetypes include the Gladiator, the Duelist (swashbuckler), the Master Samurai, and an archer (I'm not sure which one would be best, as a core archer PrC should be friendly to both Fighters and Rangers). I'd include the Elemental Savant, and possibly the Bladesinger. Since I haven't included any for priests yet, I'd put in the Templar and something else for less warlike priests.

 

[Staffan]

I'd say the Cavalier, the Assassin, and the Thief-Acrobat should all be in there, given that they used to be full-fledged classes in 2E.

No, they weren't - unless you count the Assassin class from The Scarlet Brotherhood. They *were* full-fledged classes in 1e, though (but Cavalier and Thief-Acrobat was from Unearthed Arcana, and thus not really "core").

Other PrCs that represent classic archetypes include the Gladiator, the Duelist (swashbuckler), the Master Samurai, and an archer (I'm not sure which one would be best, as a core archer PrC should be friendly to both Fighters and Rangers). I'd include the Elemental Savant, and possibly the Bladesinger. Since I haven't included any for priests yet, I'd put in the Templar and something else for less warlike priests.

The Master Samurai should definitely not be a core prestige class. If it belongs anywhere, it is in Oriental Adventures.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'd include at least the following:

*One geared toward martial characters (a particular master of a fighting style, for example)

*One geared toward magic-users (elemental savant, alienist, ect.)

*One geared toward priests (scion of the gods, etc.)

*One geared toward stealthy types (assassin is good)

*One geared toward each of the main races (arcane archer, dwarven defender, gnomish artificer, halfling footpad, orcish berserker, human champion, etc.)

*One that doesn't fit any of those molds (Geomancer, Harper, etc.)

That way, we can get a sampling of what various classes are likely to go into, as well as some of the wierder things that can be done with the PrC system.

 

[Grazzt]

I'd say the Cavalier, the Assassin, and the Thief-Acrobat should all be in there, given that they used to be full-fledged classes in 2E.

They were kits in 2e. They were full classes in First Edition (the Thief-Acrobat being a "split" class in UA).

 

[Chun-tzu]

Gah! Every time you mis-speak on a message board, there are a zillion guys ready to correct you.

(Please, do not post to tell me that I have miscounted and that there were actually less than a zillion people correcting me.)

You guys are absolutely right, I was confusing 1E and 2E, since that really wasn't my main point. I should have said "earlier editions" and not 2E.

 

[Grazzt]

Gah! Every time you mis-speak on a message board, there are a zillion guys ready to correct you.

(Please, do not post to tell me that I have miscounted and that there were actually less than a zillion people correcting me.)

You guys are absolutely right, I was confusing 1E and 2E, since that really wasn't my main point. I should have said "earlier editions" and not 2E.

Just the way of the internet. But- I do think that some of the ones you mentioned would've/should've been in the DMG as "core"...like the Cavalier, Acrobat, and perhaps one or two others.

I could've (and have) done without the Loremaster. The Shadowdancer is...eh...alright I guess. The blackguard is cool (being similar to the old 1e anti-paladin).

 

[Grazzt]

Re: Re: core prestige classes

The Master Samurai should definitely not be a core prestige class. If it belongs anywhere, it is in Oriental Adventures.

Agreed. Perhaps "core" in OA, but definitely not in the DMG.

 

[Crothian]

I place the following Prestige Classes into the Core:

Weapon Master: It's nice and generic for any fighter type
Archmage: This type of character is almost a staple in fantasy.
Blackgaurd: A well done anti paladin. What more do you need?
Thief-Acrobat: It's a solid class with many interesting abilities.
Virtuosso: A great way to show that Bards rock.

 

[Chun-tzu]

Re: Re: core prestige classes

The Master Samurai should definitely not be a core prestige class. If it belongs anywhere, it is in Oriental Adventures.

That's exactly why I chose it, actually. First, it's a very popular class (and I much prefer it as a core class than a prestige one), but more importantly, it becomes a nice example of how to create culture-specific PrCs and expand from the standard characters.

Or, maybe I've just been playing too much Wizardry 8.

 

[GuardianLurker]

Actually, I think the DMG PrCs represent a fairly good, but incomplete, "core" PrC sample.

The Blackguard and Assassin were givens, even if they are better suited for NPCs.

The Loremaster (for all that it's easiest for Bards to get into) definitely attracts the scholarly wizards.

The Dwarven Defender is a great fit for the dwarves.

And the Elven Arcane Archer is a good fit as well; better than the bladesinger, IMO, since I've always imagined elven archers, not elven swordsmen.

I'm not very happy with the NotCM as the PC thief PrC, as it's a little to mystical for my taste. Watch Detective would be a better match, I think.

The DMG is missing a plain "tank" fighter PrC (Cavalier would be a good choice), any cleric or druid PrCs (Contemplative and Verdant Lord), a Bard PrC (Maestro's the only poor choice here), a Barbarian PrC (Forsaker - the 1E Barbarian), a Sorceror PrC (which I'd suppose would have to be the Dragon Disciple, though I hate that PrC), a Monk PrC (Red Avenger maybe?), a Ranger Prc (Bloodhound, Foe Hunter, or King of the Wild), and a Paladin PrC (Templar, natch).

I'd also consider a fighter/mage combo (Spellsword), a Fighter/Thief combo (Outlaw oCR), a mage/thief combo (Arcane Trickster), and a cleric/thief combo (Temple Raider, maybe). Cleric/Fighters are pre-empted by the Paladins, and Druid/Fighters by Rangers.

Of course, at this point, there'd probably be 50+ pages just dealing with PrCs, which would probably completely blow the page count. So paring it down to the four "big" classes, and the two "big" demi-human races, is probably the best compromise.