Corners and Cover

[scholz]

We had an issue last game where our Wizard tried a Thunderwave through an open doorway. The question we had was did creatures adjacent to the wall that the doorway was in have any cover. The rules seem ambiguous.

Roughly speaking this is the scenario.

From the PHB280: "Cover (–2 Penalty to Attack Rolls): The target is around a corner or protected by terrain."

So, the Goblin is clear around a corner. It gets cover.

However, from the same page: "To determine if a target has
cover, choose a corner of a square you occupy (or
a corner of your attack’s origin square) and trace
imaginary lines from that corner to every corner
of any one square the target occupies. If one or
two of those lines are blocked by an obstacle or an
enemy, the target has cover. (A line isn’t blocked if it
runs along the edge of an obstacle’s or an enemy’s
square.)"

This seems to indicate that the Goblin gets no cover. I am confused.
On one hand, I can see the Wizard simple sticking his hand out and blindly blasting down along the wall. On the other hand, it is a corner.

By extension: Does the latter reading mean that corners NEVER provide cover to ranged, close, and area attacks, so long as the attacker is adjacent to the corner?

 

[Branduil]

No cover. He's around a corner from you, but not around a corner from the origin square, which is what matters.

 

[buzz]

The passage that's more relevant to your scenario is this, p.272: "Area Attacks and Close Attacks: When you make an area attack or a close attack, a target has cover if there is an obstruction between the origin square and the target, not between you and the target."

In your diagram above, the origin square of the blast (the wizard) has a clear path to the goblin as per the Determining Cover rules on p.280.

As for corners in general, in the diagram above, no the position doesn't give the goblin any cover from a normal ranged attack. It does give the PC cover from the goblin, however, which is nice. He's essentially sniping around the corner.

The first sentence you quote is part of a general description that is setting up the difference, in-game, between Cover and Superior/Total Cover. The section on Determining Cover gets into what these mean on the battlemat.

 

[scholz]

No cover. He's around a corner from you, but not around a corner from the origin square, which is what matters.

According to the PHB 272 the origin square is the casters:
"The blast must be adjacent to its origin square, which is a square in your space"

Isn't the attacker's square aound the corner from the goblin?

 

[deleteme123456]

According to the PHB 272 the origin square is the casters:
"The blast must be adjacent to its origin square, which is a square in your space"

Isn't the attacker's square aound the corner from the goblin?

Interesting, the way I read that (PHB 272) then is that the blast actually has an origin in YOUR SQUARE, not the first diagonal blue square as might seem to be the origin. Doesn't make a difference in this case, but probably worth noting because it might eventually matter.

 

[JGulick]

According to the PHB 272 the origin square is the casters:
"The blast must be adjacent to its origin square, which is a square in your space"

Isn't the attacker's square aound the corner from the goblin?

You are quoting a rule on Blast in a discussion about Burst.

They are two very different things, with the subject of this discussion (how they respond to cover) being one of the most important differences.

 

[GorTeX]

Hmm. I do believe that this has always been about a Blast, not a burst (check the op)..

The origin square of a blast is a square in your space (ie, your square unless you are large or larger, then you get to choose a square within your space), and the blast has to have at least one square adjacent to the origin square.

However, there is still no cover because of the phrase at the end of the cover rules

A line isn’t blocked if it
runs along the edge of an obstacle’s or an enemy’s
square

 

[buzz]

The origin square of a blast is a square in your space (ie, your square unless you are large or larger, then you get to choose a square within your space), and the blast has to have at least one square adjacent to the origin square.

Right, and in this example, per the rules for Determining Cover on p. 280, the goblin has no cover from the wizard (i.e., the origin square).

 

[scholz]

Right, and in this example, per the rules for Determining Cover on p. 280, the goblin has no cover from the wizard (i.e., the origin square).

So by extension, the PHB's "you have cover when your attacker is the around a corner", wording is really an exception to cover rule that only applies to melee attackers, correct? If you are more than one square "around the corner" I don't think this would be an issue, since there is an obvious obstruction.

 

[buzz]

So by extension, the PHB's "you have cover when your attacker is the around a corner", wording...

"Around a corner" is just an example of what one degree of cover might look like on the battlemat. The descriptions of what Superior/Total Cover look like also give some examples (e.g., arrow slits, portcullises, etc).

When you want to determine whether there is Cover (and what kind), you use the Determining Cover rules, i.e., you start drawing lines between squares and stuff. What that cover looks like is irrelevant.