D&D 5E Correcting ripple effects of slow resting variant

[Cap'n Kobold]

During tier 1, say 2-5 encounters between long rests, with 1-3 encounters between short rests. And there very well may be days without encounters - exploration and all that. So that would be adjacent short rests that I'm not counting above. So for example it might be a five day trek to get to safety they can take a long rest, with day 1 being no encounters, day 2 being one, day 3 with three, day 4 having none, and day 5 having one.

After tier 1, when they can go further, I will encourage 4-10 encounters between long rests, with 2-4 encounters between short rests. Again, with the possibility of no-encounter days so that there are back-to-back short rests not counted above. If they go too long, I will surprise them with something like a druid's sanctuary or "the perfect sunrise over the cliffs - your short rest counts as a long one" or other DM slight of hand.

Considering daily item recharges and the like, those blank days would really impact. I think I might make them recharge on something like the three days of the full moon and three days of the new moon or once a ten-day or something like that. I like the asymetrical moon one even though I just came up with it. It's both enough recharges to bring stuff back to full unless you roll really bad, but also something you can time to doing a specific activity so it recharges during that.

It sounds like you might be aiming for around a week of activity between long rests. Ish.

Regarding item renewal, you could do a couple of things:
Currently charged items generally recover dx+1 charges per dawn. You could change that to them getting only one charge per day. That would make items with less charges more powerful however. (Although you could double/triple both charges and costs to counter this.)

Alternatively perhaps double the charges in an item, and the amount recovered, then have them renew every new moon. (28 days if same as Earth's. If you're in Eberron, just pick one. )

Make them bound to long rests, the same as PC recoveries. A Druidic staff has to be planted in the open air for a week for example.
Or have them actually take resources: The item can only be recharged by the person attuned to it spending Hit Dice over the course of a long rest.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Based on the number of encounters you intend to place on the group between short rests, it might be beneficial to add a minimal rest that the players could opt into. This could allow them to spend HD to recover, but wouldn't otherwise offer the benefits of a short rest. You could even limit it to once a day as a lunch break or something. The reason I'm proposing this is because, if any of the encounters are on the tougher side, there may be asymmetrical HP attrition in the group resulting in either a silly insistence on an overnight short rest (potentially 5 minutes into the "work day") or undue strain on healers (who now can't use cool spells because they had to "waste" their heals getting the fighter back to a reasonable HP total, just because the DM rolled some lucky crits or whatever). This would also provide a purpose for Rope Trick without having to extend the duration to 8 hours.

You might say that forcing the fighter to continue on will force them to adapt, which is interesting. And you're not wrong per se. However, in my experience, the party is more likely to try to hunker down and rest, because they could get attacked during the rest. If they continue on, they could get into another encounter, and then into yet another while resting, which could lead to a TPK. IMO, 4e PCs had a much deeper well to draw from in this respect (5e casters may technically have more in terms of their spells, but HD are in no way equal to HS).

I'd also keep Tiny Hut at it's normal duration, rather than extending it to a week's duration, since that could make taking a long rest too easy. That seems like it runs counter to your intent.

As an aside, I'm not opposed to seeding site-based adventures (dungeons) into my exploration-based games. As such, something I've considered are variable length rest rules. Essentially, they use the gritty rest rules while traveling, because life on the road is hard. However, they can spend time establishing a base camp in a safe location (that they need to first scout out), which allows resting normally. An inn or similar location also allows for accelerated recovery. This would allow them to suffer the rigors of the journey (which wouldn't need multiple encounters a day to be a challenge) but also allow a more standard format for dungeon delving. You could even change up the formula by having a base camp site guarded by a boss monster (forcing them to engage it after a draining journey) or having a location with no suitable site for a base camp.

The only tricky part is once spells like Magnificent Mansion come online, they could arguably take a long rest anywhere. Either the tone of the game changes at that level or the spell would need to be modified/banned.

Good luck with your campaign!

 

[Blue]

Based on the number of encounters you intend to place on the group between short rests, it might be beneficial to add a minimal rest that the players could opt into. This could allow them to spend HD to recover, but wouldn't otherwise offer the benefits of a short rest. You could even limit it to once a day as a lunch break or something. The reason I'm proposing this is because, if any of the encounters are on the tougher side, there may be asymmetrical HP attrition in the group resulting in either a silly insistence on an overnight short rest (potentially 5 minutes into the "work day") or undue strain on healers (who now can't use cool spells because they had to "waste" their heals getting the fighter back to a reasonable HP total, just because the DM rolled some lucky crits or whatever). This would also provide a purpose for Rope Trick without having to extend the duration to 8 hours.

You might say that forcing the fighter to continue on will force them to adapt, which is interesting. And you're not wrong per se. However, in my experience, the party is more likely to try to hunker down and rest, because they could get attacked during the rest. If they continue on, they could get into another encounter, and then into yet another while resting, which could lead to a TPK. IMO, 4e PCs had a much deeper well to draw from in this respect (5e casters may technically have more in terms of their spells, but HD are in no way equal to HS).
You might say that forcing the fighter to continue on will force them to adapt, which is interesting. And you're not wrong per se. However, in my experience, the party is more likely to try to hunker down and rest, because they could get attacked during the rest. If they continue on, they could get into another encounter, and then into yet another while resting, which could lead to a TPK. IMO, 4e PCs had a much deeper well to draw from in this respect (5e casters may technically have more in terms of their spells, but HD are in no way equal to HS).

I'm actually looking to create strain at times, that's a feature for what I am planning, not a detriment. While exploring the ability to take an 8 hour rest in safety at will is not guaranteed. As a matter of fact, if the party has riled up the natives then moving on is definitely safer than trying to stay in one place.

Considering what I'm planning on doing is within or lighter than the normal limits of an adventuring day (6-8 encounters with a short rest at roughly 1/3), this is just "day within normal parameters".

I'd also keep Tiny Hut at it's normal duration, rather than extending it to a week's duration, since that could make taking a long rest too easy. That seems like it runs counter to your intent.

As an aside, I'm not opposed to seeding site-based adventures (dungeons) into my exploration-based games. As such, something I've considered are variable length rest rules. Essentially, they use the gritty rest rules while traveling, because life on the road is hard. However, they can spend time establishing a base camp in a safe location (that they need to first scout out), which allows resting normally. An inn or similar location also allows for accelerated recovery. This would allow them to suffer the rigors of the journey (which wouldn't need multiple encounters a day to be a challenge) but also allow a more standard format for dungeon delving. You could even change up the formula by having a base camp site guarded by a boss monster (forcing them to engage it after a draining journey) or having a location with no suitable site for a base camp.

The only tricky part is once spells like Magnificent Mansion come online, they could arguably take a long rest anywhere. Either the tone of the game changes at that level or the spell would need to be modified/banned.

Good luck with your campaign!

My view is that by the time the characters are of level to cast thing like Mordy's Magnificent Mansion, the players have already experienced the dangers of exploration enough that we don't need to spend session time on it on a regular basis. Leo's Tiny Hut on the other hand might be too low level for that level of safety. Must ponder.

But you are right absolutely right about it changing the tone of the campaign when the players can safely long-rest at will. I will need to make sure by that point there are some campaign arc related time limitations that would impose an opportunity cost on taking 7 days of down time - not that they can't do it, but they can't abuse it. Thanks for for bringing this up, I definitely need to have something in place.

As for location based - I'm already planning to prep them during Session 0 that there will be other way - allows me to cheat the pacing. A magic fountain part way into a dungeon that will recharge them as if they just had a long rest - once each. A very costly elixir, so that the players have some ability to "break glass" but at high cost. That sort of thing.[/QUOTE]

 

[NotAYakk]

I'm working on a campaign with this.

There are a few other changes as well.

1. "Gritty" rests.
2. You can expend a single HD to (a) recover a level of exhaustion, or (b) recover lost max HP (based off roll) during an overnight short rest.
3. At the end of an overnight safe rest, you can roll all expended HD. On an even roll of 4 or higher, that HD recovers.
4. Healing magic requires a HD to fuel it; it boosts your natural vitality, it doesn't replace it. You must expend a HD, and you gain that HD roll in HP in addition to the magic healing. Healing magic without HD to fuel it can only stabilize someone. (Periodic healing from regeneration spells and effects is an exception).

The goal is a pacing one.

I'm balancing location based encounters (like a temple or cult or whatever) to be a single short rest's worth of fight (often on the hard side), and random/travel encounters "on the road" to be similar in difficulty (often on the easier side of a short rest's worth of fights).

Time and Travel is an important part of the plot; going from point A to point B will cost the party time. And there is a clock that starts ticking and event that occur based on time passed since the start of the campaign.

By scaling up encounter recovery, I prevent Travel from being the dominant source of time-consumption. Especially as you transition from T1 to T2 and then to T3, Travel times can collapse.

T1 is about unlocking the plot. Finding out what is going on and revealing what the big ticking clock is.

T2 is about exploiting the plot. Picking things to do that undermine the bad thing coming/earn rewards and power.

T3 is winning the plot. At this point, remaining T2 tasks become trivial, and players gain a ridiculous amount of agency.

T4 is breaking the plot. The main plot has consequences on the world, and in T4 the players get to rewrite the history of the world and determine what comes after.

The thing is, as travel and distance starts to collapse in T2/T3, recovery from tough fights is going to remain. Players will have the ability to win at what they are attempting, but they won't have the time to win everywhere they need to be; they will lose by absence/neglect (at least in-tier), and have a chance to mop up what they neglected in the next tier.

And gritty rests is part of that.

 

[Maxperson]

I honestly do not see the point about duration of long rest.

Any duration you set; default 8 hrs, or 5 mins or 2 weeks, you are still limited with the fact that you have a limited amount of encounters that you can throw at the party per "rest cycle".

This just turns 5min work day into 5min work week.

And time pressure still stands no matter the duration of long rest if you put the time pressure on the players.
It's the same if you say that you have 2 weeks to save the village with 1 week rest time as you have 2 days with 8 hr rest time.


Only benefit I see, is your personal narrative preference about how many levels could a character gain in a week/month/year

It's not about the 5 minute work day. It's about the 5-8 encounters per adventuring day, at least for my group. By extending the long rest out to a week with short rests at 8 hours, I can spread out encounters and not have them blown out of the water by PCs going nova.

And to the OP, I don't change spell durations at all. It works just fine.

 

[Horwath]

It's not about the 5 minute work day. It's about the 5-8 encounters per adventuring day, at least for my group. By extending the long rest out to a week with short rests at 8 hours, I can spread out encounters and not have them blown out of the water by PCs going nova.

And to the OP, I don't change spell durations at all. It works just fine.

again, you did nothing except move the time frame from 1 day to 1 week.
you still have the same problem(or lack of) with how much challenges can you give to your players between rest cycles.

Now, if the reason is some world building so you want 5-8 encounters per week instead per day, then that is OK. But from encounter building and XP budget per long rest you have changed nothing.

 

[Maxperson]

again, you did nothing except move the time frame from 1 day to 1 week.
you still have the same problem(or lack of) with how much challenges can you give to your players between rest cycles.

Sure, but it's not a problem. They don't control when encounters happen. I do.

Now, if the reason is some world building so you want 5-8 encounters per week instead per day, then that is OK. But from encounter building and XP budget per long rest you have changed nothing.

That's what I said. I moved it to 1 week so that the "adventuring day" made more sense and I didn't have to cram 5-8 encounters into a 24 period.

 

[NotAYakk]

again, you did nothing except move the time frame from 1 day to 1 week.
you still have the same problem(or lack of) with how much challenges can you give to your players between rest cycles.

Now, if the reason is some world building so you want 5-8 encounters per week instead per day, then that is OK. But from encounter building and XP budget per long rest you have changed nothing.

Except is is ridiculously easy to have a reason events happen with a gap of less than a week between them, and quite difficult to say they happen all in the same day, yet have multiple hour long breaks between them.

If the DM picks when and how PCs rest, there is no difference. If the DM creates a situation that dictates when and how PCs rest, the tools gritty rest provide are far easier to justify.

Take travel. With gritty, a DM can have 0 long rests in a 10 day trip by just having a few encounters. With default, the DM pradtically cannot unless the travel is less than a day long, or they dictate "no rests while travelling" or somesuch.

With gritty, a cultist finishing a ritual in a week is a 0 long rest situation. Without, it has to be same day. The gritty cultists can abduct someone every day or so and trickle clues; the non gritty are doing it every 2 hours.

Any non-frantic plot means daily spellcasters have insane resources.

 

[Flamestrike]

Exhaustion should come back on a short rest (overnight).

 

[Blue]

Exhaustion should come back on a short rest (overnight).

I'm not against this, but I am curious why. The only two points of attrition that have the potential to last longer than a single long rest currently in the 5e rules are exhaustion and spent HD.

With an exploration heavy campaign, exhaustion is something that can come into play as a penalty for player decisions or for failure from "skill challenge" type of scenes. Say a bad survival role for choosing a camp and dealing with a flash flood and needing save selves, mounts, gears, wagons.

Having a level of exhaustion cured with a short rest takes all the sting out of it unless I'm giving it out with more frequency, or giving out multiple levels based on the severity of failure. The latter I'm not against if there's a good reason to clear it up quicker. Actually, I probably like it better now that I'm examining the idea.

But what brought it up the suggestion?