Cosmere picked up by Apple TV

[Retros_x]

No, I'm not, because it's not saying it's "definitely a bad business decision".

That is literally you projecting on to my comment lol.

Yes, totally me projecting after interpreting your own conclusion

I think the answer is very definitely no, personally

to the question you asked yourself:

Is blowing hundreds of millions (and likely high hundreds of millions at that) on adapting Stormlight - which is kind of a nothing story with nothing meaningful or terribly human to say, at least in the 3000+ pages of books 1-3, a good use of money for Apple?

Stuff likes this robs me completey of any desire to read the rest of your points and participate in a discussion with you, so I don't.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

What Apple seem to be hoping is that because Sanderson is a meticulous writer and planner (which they Duffer brothers are not), him acting as showrunner in a visual medium rather than a written one, won't be a problem. And it might not, if he can learn to delegate, if he can learn to edit, if he's willing to plan in the right.

Which I think is the thing. By all impressions, Sanderson is a serious, hard working professional who works well with others and doesn’t have an overinflated ego. Which already puts him ahead of a lot of people working in TV. If he doesn’t have a particular skill he can be trusted to study to acquire it or give way to someone better qualified in that area.

It’s obviously a risk, but less of a risk than it might be trusting someone of a different character.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Yes, totally me projecting after interpreting your own conclusion

to the question you asked yourself:

Stuff likes this robs me completey of any desire to read the rest of your points and participate in a discussion with you, so I don't.

I mean, you should read what you quoted. I literally asked if it was a good deal! That wasn't a purely rhetorical question, that was an actual question! I gave my answer and expected others which didn't make up other opinions and assign them to me. My opinion is right there and doesn't need to be re-written incorrectly. Good grief! I didn't, for example, say anything like it was a "nonsense decision" - that's all you. But you attributed that to me anyway, instead of using what I did say.

 

[Mort]

I'm a little worried about this.

Not because I don't think Sanderson is sane, relatively sensible, or organised or whatever, but for two specific reasons:

1) Sanderson has almost no experience in the industry and this is a huge role.

This is a legitimate worry!

But Sanderson already employs a massive team of people to help with his work. I don't think he'll have any trouble adding people who are VERY familiar with the process and fully accepting their input.

2) He's taking on a ton of work when he's already doing a ton of work.

This part, I don't think I'm worried about. The man's work ethic and output is phenomenal.

Years ago, he wrote a novel (Warbreaker) and posted EVERY step of his writing process along the way. From notes, to initial draft to edits and revisions. The speed, output and dedication was truly amazing. I can't think of anyone who could match it (Well maybe King in his early, cocaine fueled, days).

In other words, rather than being skeptical, as I usually would be on something like this - I'm quite optimistic.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

In other words, rather than being skeptical, as I usually would be on something like this - I'm quite optimistic.

I'm optimistic on Mistborn. Everything about that seems very doable.

That will live and die on the casting though, given the tight focus. If they get someone in charge of casting like Nina Gold*, they're well, uh, golden. If on, the other hand, they get the sort of people who have cast a lot of Netflix projects, it'll be a car crash. Apple TV has usually done pretty well on casting (it's complicated because it seems like the don't micromanage casting the way Netflix and Prime apparently do, but rather let the production companies handle it for the most part), so I'm hopeful here. The major worry re: casting is the level of power that Sanderson has. Not that he's irresponsible or w/e, but sometimes people with the final say on casting (which I imagine he has given the Variety article) have, whilst trying to be helpful, lead to some pretty awful casting decisions (this does include some experienced directors - but almost exclusively ones who have a long history of mediocre-to-bad work). We'll see though.

I'm not optimistic on Stormlight, because however helpful he is, it's an extremely hard project to adapt (in part because of choices he himself made in writing it - it's very much a book series which relies on that format, not just "a story" like some novels are), and whether in live-action or animation, would be ludicrously expensive to adapt, and be decade or more of commitment. Even if everything that can go right, goes right, it might never go beyond "Well that's a workmanlike adaptation of a series that's too esoteric, extended and nerdy to really hold the audience that level of financial and time investment would demand". However, I do think Apple TV might realize this, so maybe it's not worth worrying about. It might be something to consider much later on, when Stormlight is either finished or significantly closer to finished. I mean, on a positive note, I will say, Apple TV, unlike Netflix, wouldn't commission it with the full intention of cancelling it after 2-3 seasons.

* = She cast Rome, Game of Thrones, Wolf Hall, The Crown, Top of the Lake, Chernobyl, Bad Sisters, Andor, Slow Horses, Baby Reindeer, some of those just being like, the best-cast shows on TV even I don't like them, like The Crown or Wolf Hall, and some of them being very difficult casting assignments like Chernobyl. Other ones there's some just some really brilliant casting like GoT, Andor, Slow Horses. I notice Slow Horses and Bad Sisters are Apple TV shows.

 

[Parmandur]

Honestly, maybe more than anything in this Cosmere deal, I have decent hopes for the Skyward series (Sanderson's explicitly YA Sci-Fi Top Gun-meets-Dragon riders of Pern-meets-Star Wars series of novels that are entirely unrelated to the Cosmere) that is also in a fairly advanced state of development velopment as a TV show. That would actually be a pretty great fit for a streaming show of middling budget.

 

[Parmandur]

Just found these tidbits in the Cosmere Fandom, interesting bits from Sanderson about earlier drafts of Mistborn he had worked on for film. It seems he is willing and eager to make totally radical changes to the novel for a visual medium.

Brandon Sanderson

So, one thing I think I did wrong in the books was not having more allomancer guards and soldiers who were women. I don't think our same gender norms would be the case on Scadrial.

One of the [screenplay] revisions is this: Shan is no longer Elend's fiance, but his sister. Their father has left on business to the outer domninances, and so Shan is making a play to secure the heirship, trying to prove she is more bold and strong than her brother. This is what gives the team an opening, and why they're striking now with the heist, as in this version, House Venture maintains the city policing and has access to the atium stash.

The plan is to put a few Allomancers (including Ham) into the Venture house guard, and exploit Shan's desire to prove herself by creating chaos in the city that she'll think she needs to put down with decisive action. That will involve her pulling out the atium stash, which will in turn let the team know where to go to rob them.

It streamlines the book's story in some elegant ways to do this. Shan becomes the primary "mark" of the book, in many ways. It also lets me explain a little more succinctly what various members of the crew are doing in the background while we focus on Vin, who is to get close to Shan as a confidant--which is why she's sent to the parties. And why Shan being a brat to her isn't just annoying, it means a major part of the plan isn't yet in place.
It explains way better, in my opinion, why Shan would act against Elend. It's all clicking into place as I move pieces around. That said, I understand those who want a Television show. I could see going that way, perhaps.

Trouble is, nobody in streaming needs a big fantasy property. Anywhere I go right now, I'd be in a distant second or third place to Tolkien, WoT, Witcher, or Kingkiller. The offers I've gotten have been for a fraction of the budget of those shows--since everyone has already spent big money on their big fantasy show, and isn't really interested in another.
I'm confident feature is the place I want Mistborn; but even if I weren't, I'm not thrilled by the idea of being lost on Netflix as their "other" fantasy show.

Rapharasium
I don't know if I'm being negative, but these changes really worry and disappoint me. I really like Era 1 as it is, and all this change in the dynamics of society and the plot as too drastic.

Brandon Sanderson
This isn't negative; I understand this response, and think it's valid.

At the same time, I'm of the personal philosophy that a film should generally be a different beast than a book--a book can lean into the little intricacies of a story, while a film should be a bold but unified statement.

Nothing will happen to the books; those will remain the same. But if I want this film to work as a film, I believe I need to be willing to re-imagine parts of the story.

Mycroft_canner
With Elend having a sister does that mean you don’t need the Zane plot anymore?

Brandon Sanderson
That's from the second book--so it would be in the television show, and we'd likely still do it.

DataLoreHD
prove she is more bold and strong than her brother
Which brother?It certainly could not be Elend, right? Elend had no Allomancy powers (before he ate the lerasium in WoA), so Straff despised Elend and thought him too weak.And Zane was a bastard and also mad dog.If Shan was Straff's legitimate daughter, then her succession was already 100% secure. She wouldn't need to prove anything to anybody.

Brandon Sanderson
It will be Elend, but it's more that this is the first time that Shan gets to be on her own, leading by herself, and wants to show off for the Lord Ruler. Also, there's the question of whether the male heir--though inferior in this case--might get the nod for sexism reasons. I think it's going to work just fine, but I'll admit, it's getting a little rough to discuss all these details on a thread like this--I can't answer everyone's questions, I'm afraid. I just wanted to indicate the kinds of changes I'm looking at making.
Whatever I do will go through my standard "show it to tons of beta readers and get feedback" process, so I should be able to catch problems and fix them.

meh84f
The bit about atium is a bit confusing. The Ventures are going to have the Atium stash? Not the stash that we don’t find until the end I’m assuming? So it’ll be a stash but much smaller than expected?

Brandon Sanderson
So, I'm not sure I can explain it all in this, but one big change I wished I'd made from the start of Mistborn is making atium usable by all Allomancers. As I've gotten further in the cosmere, using a god metal as just for Mistborn has felt off.
So the lore change for the films will mean any Allomancer can use atium. This, in turn, lets House Venture have access to the LR's atium as a "Control the city" last resort. They keep a task force of allomancers for this purpose--which Ham can join, in anticipation of being able to steal it once Shan accesses it. (They don't know that House Venture is only given about a hundred beads of atium, not access to the full mythical cache, which will be reserved for the third movie.)

Makes the worldbuilding and storytelling more elegant, I've found, in the film. And it fits better with more "modern" cosmere fundamentals as have developed over the last decade. I think I'd make this change even if we moved to a television show and long form.

The Lord Ruler is still the "big bad" but Shan and the Inquisitors both get a little more screen time. (Actually, about the same as in the books--it's just that other parts are being trimmed, making them more front-and-center.)

Phantine
Based on that, you're also streamlining away the Sign of Sixteen if it gets a sequel? To be honest, that didn't really work for me in the novel anyway.

Brandon Sanderson
It's one of my least favorite parts of the trilogy. It (along with Vin drawing upon the mists in book one) are big changes I'm hoping to make to fix weaker sections of the continuity.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406/#e13821

Brandon Sanderson

I've come to the mindset that there are two general ways to approach adaptation. One is to try to be very faithful to the actual text, and the other is to redo almost the entire thing for the new medium, while trying to keep the soul of it the same.
I've actually written treatments of Mistborn that do both of these. As an exercise, I did one more recently (for the screen) where I threw out every scene from the book and asked myself, "If I were doing what was absolutely best for a film, but telling the same story, how would I have written this?"
That treatment for that screenplay was very different from the book, while at the same time still being the book--same soul, same characters, same basic plot beats. But no actual scenes from the book except Vin/Elend on the balcony. Everything was approaching the story from a cinematic viewpoint--and I found that in a lot of cases, this new treatment was stronger.
There is, of course, a continuum between these extremes. But it taught me a lot about adaptation. And the Wheel of Time I saw tonight was absolutely worthy to be called the Wheel of Time, even though a lot of the scenes were new.
My perspective is, perhaps, skewed by my experiences. I tend to be someone who LIKES seeing film and television adaptations do new things. That doesn't prevent me from, as a producer on this, warning Rafe of places where I think the fans will prefer he stay closer to the source material. (Indeed, there are lots of places where I would prefer that he did.) But it does let me appreciate what he's doing, and how well it works. And a part of me likes that I can go and treat this as something new, rather than just a clone of something I've already read some two dozen times.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/456/#e15425