Cosmology Part II

[Aloïsius]

b) If it's so "easy" to recreate the old stuff, why don't you instead go and create the kind of Inner Planes you like with it and leave the whole thing in one piece instead of completely revamping it?

Because we are more numerous than you. So, WotC adress the need of the majority.
And because the wheel stuff is already there. While the other stuff is not. I would be very angry if the 4e manual of the plane is a copy/paste of the 3e MotP...
Now, you maybe happy to rebuy the same old thing, I'm not.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

Because we are more numerous than you. So, WotC adress the need of the majority.

Uh-huh? Weird...from where I look, it's only the "vocal majority"...those that shout the loudest because they're unhappy with the current setup. But I'll gladly take a look at your WotC customer research notes.

Now, you maybe happy to rebuy the same old thing, I'm not.

Never mind...taste and personal preference never make good arguments.

 

[Aloïsius]

Uh-huh? Weird...from where I look, it's only the "vocal majority"...those that shout the loudest because they're unhappy with the current setup. But I'll gladly take a look at your WotC customer research notes.

I think this thing stay "top secret" usualy.

Never mind...taste and personal preference never make good arguments.

This is not about taste.
Imagine they sell "a new edition". 4e. Implying that this is somewhat an improvement over the past. And then, you buy the book, and discover that those are the same. I would feel cheated, because I already have those old books.

 

[Hussar]

Backing up a bit because wingsandsword makes a pretty decent argument, just not one I agree with.

Uh, why should every plane be a place for adventuring?

As was mentioned, if it's in a D&D sourcebook, particularly the Core, it should be about adventuring. All the other stuff should be dealt with in regional sourcebooks or by individual DM's.

Some planes shouldn't be places for Dungeon Crawl of the Day, the Elemental Planes are one of those places, they exist because they make metaphysical sense to a quasi-medieval setting.

But, most people are not playing to deal with metaphysics. They are playing to have fun with their characters. Not that metaphysics isn't fun necessarily, but, what you're talking about is far more world building centric than is maybe needed or even wanted.

Maybe I'm not in sync with the new design philosophies, but D&D setting elements, such as cosmology should be written to fit the setting as a whole, not the system.

I think this is really telling. I've gotten the same sense from what we've seen is that the game is being designed mechanics first. No more shoehorning bizarre square pegs into round holes to satisfy someone's aesthetic sense.

Why should a planar cosmology be designed first and foremost as a place for adventuring? Most campaigns will probably never go planar, or might do so on rare occasion, the planes are there for lore and exposition, not as just an infinite realm of monsters patiently waiting easy execution by PC's for their neatly arranged piles of treasure.

If that's how your adventures are designed, then perhaps you have larger issues than a change in cosmology.

However, the question begs to be asked, "Why aren't campaigns going planar?" Why should this large resource be pretty much entirely ignored by many gamers?

 

[Geron Raveneye]

I think this thing stay "top secret" usualy.

Hmm, too bad...then I'll simply claim the designers did it because they like the concept better and found it more "cool", and think they can sell it well enough to the new target audience because it doesn't have 30 years of "baggage" attached to it.

This is not about taste.
Imagine they sell "a new edition". 4e. Implying that this is somewhat an improvement over the past. And then, you buy the book, and discover that those are the same. I would feel cheated, because I already have those old books.

Sure is, from where I stand. If I like something in D&D, and D&D switches to a new ruleset different enough to make conversion difficult (and I follow that trend), and the stuff I like is published with the new rules (and I got the cash for it ), I'll buy it. I have the BECMI ruleset, including cosmology, I have the MotP 1E, I have the 3E version, and if I had the cash, I'd go for the Planescape versions of the Inner Planes and Etheral Plane at least (as I mentioned elsewhere already, the Outer Planes always looked more like in BECMI D&D with me anyway ). And apart from making conversion easier, it's always a lot of fun to read what a new author comes up with for the stuff you like. At least I never felt cheated with that. Same goes for updates campaign settings, by the way.

 

[Remathilis]

Considering that one of the things you can find in the Tempest is a grim fortress monastery of githzerai adepts I'd say that githzerai at least are going to go over there. I'm betting on slaadi too.

Which makes sense, if you think about it.

Elemental + Chaos = Slaadi

Elemental + Evil = Demon

I always thought the slaadi made good "demon-kin", so maybe they will be related (like uncorrupted demons, in a sense)

 

[Intrope]

Which makes sense, if you think about it.

Elemental + Chaos = Slaadi

Elemental + Evil = Demon

I always thought the slaadi made good "demon-kin", so maybe they will be related (like uncorrupted demons, in a sense)

Interesting idea! Given that they seem to be saying that the Elemental Chaos/Tempest is a raw creative force, perhaps Slaad are the 'mixed breed' of elementals, that arise spontaneously from the soup? (whereas Elementals spontaneously arise from pure pockets of material?) And Demons are what happens when Slaad or Elementals arise in the corrupted regions of the Abyss?

 

[The Little Raven]

My best guess is that the "inhospitable" planes provided a "place you shouldn't go" mentality, that there ARE things mortals shouldn't do or go.

If that's true, then it's a waste of space. Details given for places that PC's shouldn't go should be dropped and used for useful things... like details on places that PCs should go.

 

[Aloïsius]

Interesting idea! Given that they seem to be saying that the Elemental Chaos/Tempest is a raw creative force, perhaps Slaad are the 'mixed breed' of elementals, that arise spontaneously from the soup? (whereas Elementals spontaneously arise from pure pockets of material?) And Demons are what happens when Slaad or Elementals arise in the corrupted regions of the Abyss?

I'm not sure only elementals form demons : things like efreet, salamanders and various other (3e) outsider with elemental subtype could be easily corrupted, IMHO...

 

[Szatany]

I'm not sure only elementals form demons : things like efreet, salamanders and various other (3e) outsider with elemental subtype could be easily corrupted, IMHO...

In 4e they might equally well be elementals with outsider subtype or something else entirely.