Cost of magic items you create (SOLVED!!)

[Cougar]

Sure. If you create a 2000 gp magic item for 1000 gp then you don't stay at the same place, you actually go up by 1000.

A wizard has 5000 gold. He spends 1000 of it to make a 2000 gp item. He now has 6000. (5000-1000=4000+2000)

 

[Weeble]

Sure. If you create a 2000 gp magic item for 1000 gp then you don't stay at the same place, you actually go up by 1000.

A wizard has 5000 gold. He spends 1000 of it to make a 2000 gp item. He now has 6000. (5000-1000=4000+2000)

If I were an item creating spellcaster, would it be cheaper to make a magic item or buy one?

 

[Cougar]

The XP issue is a difficult one and something I have tried to stay away from until now, where I will give my opinion on why it balances out.

A wizard who can make his own items can make what HE wants, not what the DM wants to offer, either by sale or as found. While fighters and rogues are amassing wealth in gold and gems a wizard can convert his wealth into magic items of his choosing.

Some DMs make finding magic items a difficulty and purchasing them impossible. Creating your own items circumvents this and the XP is the sacrifice to do so.

 

[Cougar]

It would be cheaper for sure, but your wealth would be higher than if you purchased the same item, or lower than if you found it.

 

[Cougar]

Sorry Weeble, I was trying to tie it all in to using a chart to benchmark the PCs wealth in a group.

 

[kreynolds]

I am not sure kreynolds is looking to strip his PCs down to the level given in the DMG, but get a baseline of what their wealth should be to adjust further rewards. Am I wrong kreynolds?

You're not wrong. I want to establish a baseline of wealth. No. Let me rephrase that. I want to use the baseline of wealth presented in the DMG, as it keeps everyone in a party balanced out, no matter what class you play. Naturally, the baseline can be raised and lowered to suit any game, but that's another topic.

IAnd his wizards would be best served by finding magic items, not buying them. Buying them is the worst of the acquisition methods, costing you double the market value on the wealth chart.

How do you figure that buy an item costs you double the market value on the wealth chart? Look, if you make a 2,000gp magic item, and you keep it, I count it against you in full. If you buy a 2,000gp magic item, I count it against you in full. There is no doubling.

And it is definately advantageous to make your own items because you can't simply rely upon finding the item you want in a random dungeon or encounter. Sometimes you just really want a wand of fireball, but you don't want to wait because you've got a big fight coming up, it's no big deal, as you simply make your own.

 

[kreynolds]

kreynolds,

You will have explain to me using very small words why any wizard would bother to use item creation feats in your campaign.

It allows him to make any item he wants. He doesn't have to wait to find it in a random encounter. He doesn't have to look around in every single shop on the face of Faerun. If he wants it, and meets the prereqs, he can make it.

That small enough?

A feat is very valuable. It is hard to put a gold value on a feat, but I would think a savvy player would happily spend 5000 to 20000 for a slotless item that gave his PC a feat ability, depending on the feat.

For someone that is so dead set against creating new magic items that grant feats, I'm surprised you suggested it. But you're right, it is difficult figuring up how much their worth.

It seems to me a wizard in your campaign should buy only buy things with cash. (The exception being when you are powerful enough to create a "signature item" that will define the style of your character.)

Potentially, every single item you make can define the style of your character. Also, in my games, when you sell loot, you get half price, but when you sell items that you create, that's not loot, so you sell it at full price or at an adjusted price, but at least you gain a profit, unless the shop you try to sell it to already has 57 +1 longswords and that's what you're tyring to sell.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The XP issue is a difficult one and something I have tried to stay away from until now, where I will give my opinion on why it balances out.

A wizard who can make his own items can make what HE wants, not what the DM wants to offer, either by sale or as found. While fighters and rogues are amassing wealth in gold and gems a wizard can convert his wealth into magic items of his choosing.

Some DMs make finding magic items a difficulty and purchasing them impossible. Creating your own items circumvents this and the XP is the sacrifice to do so.

Good point.

But creating permenant items is rarely a short term benefit to the character. Making or buying scrolls (cheap enough to usually be available even in magic scarce worlds) gives much more bang for the buck.

Creating an expensive permenant item gives a long-term financial benefit. If you take that long term incentive away, those feats are wasted IMO.

Perhaps you are right that a modest xp hit is just the cost of transmuting magic into magic you want. That can be justified on a case by case basis. But you are ignoring the feats he is spending to accomplish that alchemy. Those feats are valuable; they just happen to be difficult to put a price tag on so they conveniently keep getting forgotten.

A feat is slotless item, that stacks well with other bonuses, and cannot be taken away or detected when not actively used. What is a feat worth? 5000 gp? 10000 gp? 20000 gp?

I think your arguments would be convincing to me if either creating items costs no xp, or cost no feats but xp. Then this power level pseudo-stasis would make sense. But I do not see why a character who spends feats and xp should not gain a clear benefit.

 

[Cougar]

What I was refering to about buying items is it skews the table the worst, essentially double what a found item would be worth. It is actually more advantageous for a PC to buy an item if his DM is trying to maintain a baseline because he will be naturally in the course of the game be reimbursed to make up for his deficit. If the DM isn't concerned about evening out the wealth levels than the PC that buys magic items would be in sore shape, as they would be far behind any character who simply found their items.

 

[Cougar]

Ridley's Cohort, do you believe a chart or table should be used at all for a baseline of character wealth? Not to knock the offending PCs down or Monty Haul the poor players, but just as a guideline for DMs?