Cost/Page analysis

[Psion]

Oh, you can extend that statement to quite a lot of products. Volume doesn't say anything about quality (let's not get into this topic ). Page count doesn't say anything about word count (layout varies vastly in this regard). It doesn't say anything about the nature of the contents, either (some people like art in products, others couldn't be bothered less). The answer to the question what makes a product enjoyable and worthwhile will be different for every individual.

Yeah, people would bring this up when I would cite general value metrics like this in my reviews, saying "there's more to a product than it's page count." And I would be like "yeah, that's what the other 99% of the review addresses."

Just because a given snippet of info doesn't tell you anything doesn't mean that it tells you nothing. This particular method of argument is called a "false dichotomy."

 

[Turjan]

Yeah, people would bring this up when I would cite general value metrics like this in my reviews, saying "there's more to a product than it's page count." And I would be like "yeah, that's what the other 99% of the review addresses."

Just because a given snippet of info doesn't tell you anything doesn't mean that it tells you nothing. This particular method of argument is called a "false dichotomy."

That's right, it's one piece of information, and I think it's an important one. At least I strongly believe that it's one of the major points for people when they decide whether to buy a book/pdf or not (the most important one being whether they are interested in the topic or not).

But I see where you come from. I remember these endless discussions about the price of Bastion Press books. They were in full colour and on glossy paper. I suppose that most of the arguments about their price would never have taken place if people had actually liked most of the artwork. This not being the case, the per page price was a never-ending discussion topic. A similar case can be made for Atlas Games books, which have a very low text density and 128 page hardcovers that sold for $29.95. Most people considered this price to be too high, though this time it went without arguing .

 

[Yair]

I am glad to see so many Bad Axe products in your analysis-- but I think you're a bit unfair on Creature Creation. [snip]

I would just like to say I agree completely. And I said so. For example, "They range from ...to, say, 0.39 (Grim Tales: Gamemastering; and worth every penny)."
The reason there were so many BAG products on that list is that I value them a lot, so I wanted to see how they faired. And as you said cost per page doesn't say anything - that's why Gamemastering is worthy every penny of that "high" 0.39.
As for Creature Creation itself... you are probably right. I don't know, since I didn't buy it, but I suspect the excel sheet would be grand. You are wrong that I "completely waved away the spreadsheet", I didn't - it is listed in my spreadsheet, and in the analysis I say "not fair, as it includes an excel file". That still doesn't change its costs, unfortunately, which for me - someone who isn't making creatures right now - isn't worth it. If I ever do step up to the plate and take creature creation seriously, your book and Expeditious Retreat's book are the contenders, and both seem worthy.

The cost/page doesn't say much by itself. But it's still an interesting data point. For example, knowing that The Penumbra Fantasy Bestiary or Arcana Evolved is priced so low was, for me, surprising.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Once upon a time I used to keep a list of what I called 'Entertainment Dollars' using a formula of enjoyment on a 1-10 scale x the amount of time I used the product or expected to (capping at 1000 hours) and dividing by the price. A similar formula could be worked out for price per page.

The Auld Grump, who has stopped doing that...

 

[Voadam]

Price does matter. It is the reason I have not gotten any mongoose pdfs at dtrpg.com even though they are watermarked and there are ones whose subject I want or ones I have in print that I want a pdf copy of. I simply have many more from other companies that I am interested in that are significantly cheaper and that are on my to buy list first. Plus paying more for the pdf than for the print version from amazon really rubs me the wrong way viscerally, even though I prefer pdf to print for copy and paste and storage utility.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

As for Creature Creation itself... you are probably right. I don't know, since I didn't buy it, but I suspect the excel sheet would be grand. You are wrong that I "completely waved away the spreadsheet", I didn't - it is listed in my spreadsheet, and in the analysis I say "not fair, as it includes an excel file". That still doesn't change its costs, unfortunately, which for me - someone who isn't making creatures right now - isn't worth it.

I guess my point in calling it out was that so much of the price/value is wholly dependent on that spreadsheet.

It's akin to doing a price-per-page analysis on a bundle of Fiery Dragon counters-- analyzing just the two pages of text that wrap around the bundle of counters, and ignoring the 32 pages of counters, and then saying, "Whoa, $7.48 per page is pretty steep."

 

[trancejeremy]

Basically, it's like anything else - if you buy in bulk, usually you get a lower per piece (or page).

 

[Ghostwind]

Something to factor into your analysis is the number of words per page. Some companies will average between 700-800 words per page while others are in the 500-600 words per page range. It will make a difference on overall cost per page.

 

[arscott]

A question for wulf or anyone else who knows the answer?

What program do I need to use the spreadsheets? Is there a free reader for which they will work? or do I actually need to have excel?

 

[Turjan]

A question for wulf or anyone else who knows the answer?

What program do I need to use the spreadsheets? Is there a free reader for which they will work? or do I actually need to have excel?

If it's an Excel spreadsheet, you have principally two options:

1. Use the free Excel Viewer 2003 by MS; you cannot edit the stuff, though

2. Use a full free office program suite, which is actually as good as the MS Ofice version: http://www.openoffice.org/ ; this one lets you do all calculations, just MS macros don't work .