Could Mirage Arcana be used to cause someone to drown themselves?

[akbearfoot]

This is the perfect spell to help defend a small toan against an invading army of monsters.

Or to give your party a superior location to defend.


Townsfolk can now have moats and walls with arrow slits to shoot through....Or truncated hallways so the enemies have to bunch up to get through.


You can place a large building with metal doors around smaller buildings that have women and children hiding in them.

Add bushes and things to cause slowed movement and give your stealthy characters a place to snipe from.


Hide inside fake buildings or behind fake walls to avoid arrow fire and targetting from magical spells.

Make stone walls rise up and enclose groups of enemies, if only to slow them down for a couple rounds while they figure out it is an illusion.

Lots of things you can do with this spell, but causing people to die should not be one of them.

 

[moritheil]

The environment is causing them to hold their breath, to swim instead of walk, etc.

This is wrong, and I suspect it is part of why you contend so mightily against the conclusion other posters have reached. The environment does not cause them to do anything but drown. Holding your breath, like choosing to swim instead of walk, is a conscious activity. When you do stop holding your breath (normally because you fail a con check, but in this case because you failed a save and were not aware that you should have been holding your breath) you start drowning.

Note carefully how nothing in the rules suggests you should assume someone magically starts holding their breath as soon as environmental conditions change - they can hold their breath, but it's a conscious decision.

Any character can hold her breath for a number of rounds equal to twice her Constitution score. After this period of time, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check every round in order to continue holding her breath. Each round, the DC increases by 1. See also: Swim skill description.

When the character finally fails her Constitution check, she begins to drown. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hp). In the following round, she drops to -1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she drowns.

Thus: Failed save = nothing seems amiss. Entry into the water while unaware and not holding breath = falling unconscious (0 hp).

 

[s-dub]

I think that per RAW you can use this spell as the OP suggets. The spell does allow tactile components, meaning that whatever you feel can be controlled.

Personally I would give a wisdom check each round with such a drastic change (to identify the "proof" that the illusion is there)

I think it's a really dirty trick to play though.

 

[azhrei_fje]

I also think the OP's use of the spell is reasonable (and I even read all four pages of this thread!).

But if the aboleth doesn't want air breathers to get a Will save (or doesn't want them to have much of a bonus), the illusion of air should be placed so that the character is still mostly under water.

For example, as a character enters the water, they will feel resistance. Define the illusion so that the characters think the water level is about 1 foot lower than it really is. They will feel bouyant, but they expect to because they're 80% under water. They will feel resistance to movement, but they expect to. And so on. As they move towards the surface and their head breaks into the (illusionary) air, they'll take a deep breath -- full of water!

I think that's a perfectly reasonable use of the spell.

Having said that, I wouldn't do it to my players unless they knew enough about aboleths to know of this ability and have heard stories about how aboleths might use this spell.

 

[Jhaelen]

I think that per RAW you can use this spell as the OP suggets. The spell does allow tactile components, meaning that whatever you feel can be controlled.

According to what definition of 'tactile'? In general 'tactile' refers to your sense of touch and nothing else.

I don't know why this thread was resurrected but I've already explained that being submerged in water affects a lot more than just your sense of touch.

 

[Notmousse]

Ever try to climb out of a pool of water with a full set of clothes on? Or a full set of adventuring gear? It takes a lot of effort to break the surface. Personally I'd wonder what was going on when I went flying into the 'air' when I should be struggling to pull myself up.

 

[glass]

Well gosh, I dunno. What's the point of a 5th level wall of force if you can just teleport through it?

More to the point, what is the 5th level Wall of Force spell, if illusory walls created by Mirage Arcana functionally identical -but with all the other stuff MA can do at the same level.


glass.

 

[Zurai]

More to the point, what is the 5th level Wall of Force spell, if illusory walls created by Mirage Arcana functionally identical -but with all the other stuff MA can do at the same level.


glass.

Walls created by Mirage Arcana are not functionally identical. You get a Will save against MA walls. Wall of Force is no save.

According to what definition of 'tactile'? In general 'tactile' refers to your sense of touch and nothing else.

tac·tile Audio Help /ˈtæktɪl, -taɪl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[tak-til, -tahyl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. of, pertaining to, endowed with, or affecting the sense of touch.
2. perceptible to the touch; tangible.

touch Audio Help /tʌtʃ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[tuhch] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation,
–verb (used with object)
1. to put the hand, finger, etc., on or into contact with (something) to feel it: He touched the iron cautiously.
2. to come into contact with and perceive (something), as the hand or the like does.
3. to bring (the hand, finger, etc., or something held) into contact with something: She touched a match to the papers.
4. to give a slight tap or pat to with the hand, finger, etc.; strike or hit gently or lightly.
5. to come into or be in contact with.

You don't just get tactile perception with your hands and fingers. Anywhere you touch something or something touches you, it's a tactile sensation. The feeling of water going down your throat is a tactile sensation, for example.

 

[ElectricDragon]

The visual effects of Mirage Arcana would have to allow for the reduced speed of victims, making distances seem twice as far and steps of all creatures move twice as far as they actually do. (This is supposing that all creatures have enough weight to walk on the bottom (16 pounds for Medium creatures; doubled for each larger category and halved for each smaller category). Tactile would remove the choice to swim or walk otherwise. Start of a battle would severely complicate this as swings of weapons would similarly be slowed and thus noticeable. As would anything thrown or dropped (battle or no).

Key points:

1.) Balance is the key issue. Anyone who has submerged themselves in water knows the difference, this is not tactile.

2.) Now pressure could be thought of as tactile unless it is enough pressure to damage you; then tactile is not a strong enough word to cover being squashed by water pressure.

3.) Not to mention several obvious visual clues brought by the creatures into the illusion (and thus not part of the illusion). Air bubbles, silt stirred up from walking on the bottom and hanging in the "air", and even audible clues such as speaking to comrades being indecipherable, normal clanging of walking tanks being muted, etc.

4.) Sense of direction. Ever noticed it is more difficult to tell up from down while submerged than it is when out of water?

5.) Also, taking a breath when that breath would kill you is certainly interaction with the illusion and calls for a saving throw. Any of the previous things I mentioned (1., 2., any of the things in 3., 4., or not carrying enough weight to allow you to walk on the bottom) should allow bonuses to that save.

Ciao
Dave

 

[moritheil]

People are overthinking the feedback between the character and their environment. Specifically, what time frame does everything occur in? Realistically, victims are going to walk right into the water and by the time they might realize something is wrong, they will be unconscious.

Do your groups normally proceed at 5' / round instead of the more normal 60'+ double move?