Could this be the future format of 4th Edition D&D?

[DeadlyUematsu]

IMO, I think the bookkeeping and prepwork people are in the minority. I believe it's better to not cater to them then to require everyone else to use software.

 

[VictorC]

jesus. this topic needs to be closed already or something.

God , second.

 

[Upper_Krust]

UK, please don't refer to me as 'mate' when you've already referred to me as an 'elite gamer'.

Fair enough cthulhu_duck, I apologise to you or anyone who took offense at such comments. Personally I don't see the term as derogatory, but then again I don't see how a 4E can sell well past the core rulebooks, so I guess opinions vary.

Of the gamers I know, the collectors among them collect both rpg books and miniatures. The miniature collectors, if we just address that group, collect and PAINT their miniatures for use in tabletop wargaming.

...and I know of gamers who collect and DON'T paint miniatures, so I guess there are all sorts out there.

Your product won't appeal to them based on previous products (Heroclix, D&D miniatures, etc). They enjoy the painting as much as any other part of the hobby - and they won't repaint prepainted miniatures - if you think they will, show us the evidence.

What you could do is use that as an opportunity to release a slightly cheaper set with unpainted minis. Hows that? I quite like the idea.

I think Aaron L hit a problem squarely on the head above - you may not enjoy the bookkeeping and prepwork, but other people do. In a similar fashion, you may enjoy miniatures and tiles, but other people don't.

I totally agree with that idea. By the same token have a look around the other 4E thread and see how many people are calling for simplified rules and less book-keeping and prepwork. Its not like I am alone in the matter.

Some tabletop rpg gamers choose to integrate miniatures into their game - but a lot don't based on my experiences. A smaller chunk of the miniatures using group use tiles. A few folk have even found that cards can help with making the existing rules of the game easier to use.

Indeed.

D&D allows for integration of miniatures and tiles and cards. - but it doesn't require it. The option there is the reason why it's successful - since it doesn't force people to use something they don't want to use, or can't afford to it.

If I was to compare D&D played with miniatures (DDM, optional), tiles (D&D, optional) and cards (paizo etc, optional) with what you're proposing?

I'd keep my existing D&D. With the miniatures, tiles and cards I already use when necessary, and depending on the group I'm playing with and their personal preferences.

Thats fair enough. I think had I to do the thread over again I wouldn't have used 4E in the title, because its just got so much baggage and preconceptions amongst people here that you are doomed to failure.

Instead I would pitch this as a side product (in the same manner as the current D&D Boardgame - only better marketed), rather than 'THE' D&D.

Of course it would be the exact same product, but at least this way it won't make people "sick to their asses".

Thanks for your time (and patience) all.

It'll be very interesting to see how it all pans out over the coming years.

 

[S'mon]

Hey S'mon!

I was thinking Levels 1-12 with add-ons ('sequels') for 13-24 and 25-36.

Dungeons & Vampires: Castle Ravenloft
Dungeons & Vampires 2: Tomb of Horror
Dungeons & Vampires 3: Throne of Orcus

But also starting PCs would be tougher than 3rd Edition PCs. More akin to West End Games Star Wars d6. So 'levelling' (powering up) would be more frequent, but less of a leap.

That sounds a bit like C&C, which is based on Levels 1-12 as the core game. C&C PCs with max starting hp & 3/4d6 stats are pretty powerful compared to the rest of the world, about the same as a 3rd level 3e or B/X D&D PC, eg they can fight ogres and possibly survive, unlike a 3e 1st leveller.

With my B/X pbem I start PCs at 3rd in order they can be experienced heroes, like WEG d6 (Star Wars) PCs, and advance them fairly slowly. I don't like the power escalation in 3e; 7 sessions to literally double in power is too fast for me.