Could we start seeing more system-lite products?

[Glyfair]

It's been no secret that we have a pretty strong system divide right now. How wide the divide is and how this will shake out over time is pure speculation right now. However, wouldn't this divide create a favorable atmosphere for system-lite for systemless products?

I always found Paizo's products to be strong, but have shied away since the 4E announcement for concerns about system compatibility. Three products that have been immune to this are the item cards, tile sets and flip mats. All are usable in almost all RPGs.

I would certainly pick up more of Paizo's sourcebooks and adventures if I knew that they were lightly focused on system and more on other elements (personalities, plot, locations, etc.). Unfortunately, Paizo to me has a strong memory of heavy system elements (look at the end of the Savage Tide with multiple page long stat-blocks in each adventure). That makes me very wary.

System heavy products aren't going to disappear, and I wouldn't want that. In fact, some of my favorite book types are that sort (monster books virtually require it). However, wouldn't it be nice to see more quality systemless or system-lite products?

 

[Jack99]

I agree. It could be a great niche for a few small 3PP.

Regarding Paizo, even though I only play 4e, I still picked up the two guides (Korvosa and Darkmoon Vale) and the Creatures Revisited book. All three are highly recommendable, no matter the system you run, and all three are very light on crunch (less than 5%).

Cheers

 

[dm4hire]

I think Green Ronin's approach with Freeport was a brilliant move on their part and think a lot of game manufacturers would benefit by following their example. In some regards WotC messed up by including game mechanic info in the new FR book as some of those remaining with older editions will not buy it due to the 4e content. A mechanics free product opens it to not just your own game system but to other systems as well. That's a win even if the customer doesn't buy your system books as you still sell a product to them. It also makes your product durable as you don't have to do a revision later due to system changes; the main reason GR did it with Freeport.

 

[S'mon]

Robert Conley's new Points of Light from Goodman Games is a nice system-light product, 4 mini settings in 48pp, the only stats are things like "Fighter 8", making it useable with any edition of D&D.

 

[Angellis_ater]

But what beyond settings and "heavy fluff" books like Creature Revisited has a chance of being systemless?

 

[Crothian]

Adventures, book of encounters, book of shops, NPCs, cities, etc

 

[WhatGravitas]

Adventures, book of encounters, book of shops, NPCs, cities, etc

Adventures and encounters have the problem that they sometimes really shine through clever use of the system, otherwise they're closer to a comprehensive set of elaborate plot hooks.

For example, I reckon a good 4E encounter idea wouldn't play well in Pathfinder and vice versa, because the very conception of encounters has shifted.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Crothian]

For example, I reckon a good 4E encounter idea wouldn't play well in Pathfinder and vice versa, because the very conception of encounters has shifted.

It has and it hasn't.

Wizards certainly has changed things, but reading through the Goodman Games modules they seem more like what we saw in 3ed. I think a good and creative encounter can work in either system, it will of course then be up to the DM to make it work in their system.

 

[Umbran]

Could we see them? Sure. Are we likely to? I don't think so.

It seems to me that doing systemless products worth buying is more difficult than doing similar system-specific products. And getting them to sell when they aren't allied in marketing with a system is apt to be similarly difficult.

 

[Glyfair]

It seems to me that doing systemless products worth buying is more difficult than doing similar system-specific products.

Note I also listed system-lite products. Prior to the OGL, just about every 3rd party "D&D compatible" product would count as a system-lite product. For example, the early Kingdoms of Kalamar books could could count.

Right now I am considering adapting Judges Guild's Book of Treasure Maps to 4E for my campaign. It doesn't quite qualify as system lite (with a demon lord included). However, most of it will hold up well.