D&D 5E Countering Rest Spells (Tiny Hut, Rope Trick, et al)

[tetrasodium]

I don't think I've ever seen the spell actually used. But even then I don't see how it's particularly broken. It's a second level spell taking up one of your prepared spells.

Either the opponents know where you are and can likely deduce that you're hiding somewhere in the vicinity (in most campaigns intelligent monsters know spells exist), or they have no clue you're there at all. In the former, they're going to be on high alert with extra patrols and defenses activated. If the latter you could have found a broom closet to hide in.

When level 2 spells are up there are so many more spells players are catching up on from first and adding to second level spells that rope trick gets ignored in favor of just picking up the munchkin card designed tiny hut

@Todd Roybark people commonly complain that fitting in all five encounters in a single "adventuring day" is difficult, you seem to be suggesting that the solution is to include all five in one go then ignore the fact thst the party has ten minutes to leasurely cast tiny hut but doesn't need to because they still have the rest of today's five plus tomorrow's five on the other side of that impenetrable wall of force one way mirror.

 

[Todd Roybark]

5 encounters should not be all combat, to my mind, but the impression I get tetrasodium, is that is often what people are referring to when referencing the sacred “adventuring day”.

Figuring out how to disrupt the ritual sacrifice that will bring about the end of the world(TM) conducted in the multi -level Thane of a Yuan Ti temple, with a hard encounter Xp load of monsters, plus traps, an Arcane locks, and puzzle like aspects is 3-5 encounters in One complex room.

A deadly encounter, in 5e with bounded accuracy and bad dice luck on the part of the players and good dice luck on the part of the DM can effectively be the adventuring day, regardless of what the DMG says. The new U/A class features like Spell Versatility arose as a response to a style of play the insular group of D&D designers at WOTC DID NOT conceive of per Crawford’s own Twitter post.

The problem is the default assumption of the adventuring day, and trying to slavishly abide by it.
All tables will have a somewhat different paradigm.

5e has a Rest Timer problem. Prior editions ( Esp 4e), player resources depleted at a fairly consistent rate across classes....yes there were glaring exceptions like 1e First level Wizard and so forth, but casting 1 to 2 spells in an encounter often could resolve it.

In 5e due to spell balancing( low damage relative to hp, no guaranteed duration like prior editions, restrictive Concentration rules etc) full casters have to cast more spells, use more class powers.

Meanwhile Fighters, Monks, Rogues are good w/ Short Rests....Pallys and Rangers and Wizards fall in the middle, and Bards, Non Circle of the Land Druids, clerics and Barbarians (to a much lesser degree) are clamoring for a long rest....because the rest timer for these classes are different.

This to me is the real problem. (As others have stated)...
That and thinking the “Adventuring Day” is like the Speed of Light.....Adventuring Day is a guideline, not the law.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I don't see how it's particularly broken. It's a second level spell taking up one of your prepared spells.

The spell-slot cost on Rope Trick is pretty meaningful, in return for a Short Rest, especially as, IIRC, it's a Wizard-unique spell, and the wizard won't generally get much from the short rest it enables.

That's another reason Da Hut seems like such an upgrade, it's not only a Long rest, which benefits the Wizard greatly, it's a ritual, and thus virtually "free" for the wizard, taking up only pages in his book.

 

[Nebulous]

That's another reason Da Hut seems like such an upgrade, it's not only a Long rest, which benefits the Wizard greatly, it's a ritual, and thus virtually "free" for the wizard, taking up only pages in his book.

Taking away the ritual tag would make it more balanced I think.

 

[Maxperson]

I don't think I've ever seen the spell actually used. But even then I don't see how it's particularly broken. It's a second level spell taking up one of your prepared spells.

Either the opponents know where you are and can likely deduce that you're hiding somewhere in the vicinity (in most campaigns intelligent monsters know spells exist), or they have no clue you're there at all. In the former, they're going to be on high alert with extra patrols and defenses activated. If the latter you could have found a broom closet to hide in.

Um, no. The difference is that you can use it without any broom closet or other place that you could physically hide in. You are creating a broom closet at will where there probably won't be one otherwise.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Um, no. The difference is that you can use it without any broom closet or other place that you could physically hide in. You are creating a broom closet at will where there probably won't be one otherwise.

It doesn’t hide you, though.

Rope Trick does, but it is only for short rests.

 

[Maxperson]

The spell-slot cost on Rope Trick is pretty meaningful, in return for a Short Rest, especially as, IIRC, it's a Wizard-unique spell, and the wizard won't generally get much from the short rest it enables.

That's another reason Da Hut seems like such an upgrade, it's not only a Long rest, which benefits the Wizard greatly, it's a ritual, and thus virtually "free" for the wizard, taking up only pages in his book.

Some people play as a party.

 

[Maxperson]

I don’t ask them not to use it, I ask them not to force me to be adversarial by using it when it makes no sense.

It pretty much always makes sense, though. Why risk trouble when you can hide for an hour and get your short rest pretty much scot free? And I will never, ever be adversarial. Nothing the players can do will cause me to stoop that low. If something is a problem it will be changed or banned so that it is no longer a problem.

So they get a short rest. So what? They can’t do it all day, it costs a level 2 slot, they can’t use it to get long rest resources, including hit dice, etc.

There are lots of short rest resources.

 

[Asisreo]

This may be a bit tangential but did you know that an average creature can move 300 ft. Per minute. That's 30 10-ft squares. If you're a diligent DM, you could set up patrols in your dungeon so it's less like a room-by-room encounter chart and more of an organic setpiece (making it easier by having the intended encounters as patrollers themselves; like having the 4 orcs as one patrol instead of splitting them up). Treat each minute as a round and whenever the characters chooses a path that intersects the patrol's path, they start an encounter.

This can be relevant as the party might be able to trace the patrol and find areas where they'd avoid them, making it easier to find spots good enough to cast Leomund's without getting caught. ~Oops, this thread was about nerfing and not buffing, huh?~

Either way, it breathes new ways to dungeon-crawl and might lead to players thinking they won't need it so bad since they're out of the enemy patrol's path.

 

[Asisreo]

It pretty much always makes sense, though. Why risk trouble when you can hide for an hour and get your short rest pretty much scot free? And I will never, ever be adversarial. Nothing the players can do will cause me to stoop that low. If something is a problem it will be changed or banned so that it is no longer a problem.



There are lots of short rest resources.

I will say, I would absolutely LOVE for my players to use short rests more often. Lets the warlock know they're loved and if any player has the foresight to make those safer, it might make me shed a tear of joy. I think short rests should be the safer option anyways so something that makes it safer is hardly reason for a ban imo.